Joined: May 15, 2003 Posts: 888 Location: Portland, Maine
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject: Spring Spey Striper Outting - Maine
Hey,
I got a great idea for all of us east coast guys and west coast too, if you want to make the 3,000 mile trip ..... Our coastal rivers are many and big and very conducive to spey rods for trout/salmon and also ocean dwelling striped bass .. and plenty of room .. when i say plenty .. i mean almost too much ... very overwhelming amounts of water and 100's of miles of it ... anyway ... this would be very cool when steelheading ends and an experience that certainly would be fun ...
Bring the biggest spey rods you got .. cuz even your biggest one will pale in comparison to the size fo the water ... leave your floating lines at home and bring the sink .... leave your small spey flies at home too and bring some big nasty stuff .... and we will spey for big stripers that hold in heavy currents .... here is a video from last spring on the single handed rod ... this coming spring i will absolutely be using the spey rod ... because distance does matter ... as you can see from the video .... we will be dealing some serious current and water ... AND FISH.
ps.. hey linesidesonthefly .. maybe you can suggest some pollock type flies specifically designed for the spey ...? or maybe the ones we use for our single handed rods will work just fine? but the are awfully heavy??? got any ideas??? maybe just less lead wraps on the pollock fly??
Here is the video that shows an example of just one of many rivers and literally hundreds of miles of fishable water ... let me know if you guys are interested... this would be fun.
Joined: May 15, 2003 Posts: 888 Location: Portland, Maine
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: gilly
really? that answers allot of my questions about spey in salt (ocean)... i was thinking .. "oh man, what a nightmare it would be in big surf or ledges doing all of these water born spey casts .." i was invisioning the mess of line that would be wrapped around barnacles while the maine surf pounded away on the line and snags making the mess even worse .... so gilly09 ... basically you are saying that the simple solution is "just cast the spey rod overhand" ... that makes sense to me in ocean/surf casting applications...
of course .. in the marshes or in the bays or in the bay.. where the surf is not ginormous some of the water born spey casts could be used in conjunction with the the overhead cast .... but answer me this ... do you get the line out in the ocean much further with a spey rod as opposed to a single handed rod using the overhand cast ... probably a stupid question .. but just want to be clear ... the only dissadvantage i could see is that ... tossing that cannon around overhead for a full day could get tiresome?????? let me know your thoughts to these questions ... thanks man.
ps. just to be clear for everyone else ... gilly09 is from maine .. and i am assuming he is referring to fishing the ocean and not the rivers that i speak of where the striped bass run up the same rivers that atlantic salmon do ... so point is .. if there were spey guys who wanted to come to maine to fish in the big ocean going river systems ... that WOULD entail the same spey tactics used on steelhead and atlantic salmon rivers ... i am asking gilly09 kind of a side-bar question as it relates to the overhand cast with a spey rod in ocean/surf casting situations ...
Joined: Feb 22, 2005 Posts: 135 Location: Adirondacks
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:55 am Post subject:
Jer,
A simple shooting head system ie: 24 foot type 6 shooting head looped to the running line on a 2-hander will alow you to cast 80-120 feet if you get good with one back cast...It's a trip. Runs on the same pivet principle as a 14 foot surf casting spinning rod. Bottom hane does all the work and watch the line fly out of the stripping basket. With the rod tucked under your arm on the presentation just like a single hander you won't notice the weight of the rod but you will notice how much longer your line is in the water...
I have a good friend that owns a fly shop in Conway NH. I was complaining around April that my shoulder (I have a torn rotator cuff) was sore from fly casting.
I tried to teach myself to cast left handed but felt and looked like a monkey #$%#ing a football.
We were talking one night and he said "I have the trick for you"
The next night he was at my house with a 15 foot spey rod. He taught me the basic overhand cast in front of the house in the street. One backcast and you've got 100 feet of line out in front of you.
I found the spey casting to be much easier on my right shoulder, being right handed, because the basic overhand cast is primarily driven with the bottom hand (my left hand).
I'm not so sure I'll ever become a serious spey fisherman, but it served as a quick and simple solution for me. I was able to continue my physical therapy on the shoulder without suffering set backs from regular fly fishing.....and I didn't have to turn to the spin rod
Hooksets with the spey rod held parallel to the water and stip set worked best. Trying to raise that long rod on a striper results in lost fish.
Lastly, if you spend some time at the mouth of the spurwink...you'll see regular spey guy there who was instrumental in honing a few specifics for me. Also, on MFF, Gunner is a spey fisherman. He actually travels to spey conventions and casting competitions.
When I pick up the spey I'm usually at the mouth of a tidal river. With that said, I'm not fighting a lot of surf, but boy can you cover some water
Joined: Oct 10, 2005 Posts: 26 Location: Old Orchard Beach, Maine
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:41 am Post subject:
I'll need to look at what you folks typically use for flies when Spey casting. The lead in the fly serves two purposes. First, it aids in the action of the fly. Second, it aids in rolling the fly over at the end of the cast.
With that said it'll be a long winter and I'd be happy to dream a fly up. From what I've heard a simple black Snake fly is pretty killer on a Spey rod.
BTW Gilly and I are getting our feet wet in winter Trout fishing again after many years exclusively plying our trade in the salt. I don't know about him but I could use some refreshers on the newer techniques that have become widely used in the sweet water.
Thanks for posting that video it brought back some good memories.
Joined: May 15, 2003 Posts: 888 Location: Portland, Maine
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: great
sounds good linesides ... i don't think the flies for stripers would be too different regardless of spey or singlehanded rod ? clousers, decievers and all that stuff i plan on using ... so, i could be wrong, but seems as though your pollock fly would be just fine as is ... but perhaps with a little less weight at the head, in terms of lead wraps ... but perhaps not ... ... again .. i think ... don't fix a wheel that ain't broken, right??? and i think your flies are ready to go ... with maybe just slight tweaking for spey applications .. but not much ... that's just my take on it..?? gilly .. what do you think??> what did you use for flies for the stripers at the mouths of rivers??? i am guessing the same menu as you would use on single handed rod ..(clousers, decievers, etc...) .. let me know .. thanks .... and what were some of the considersations as to what fly was better than the next when using the spey rod .. for example .. was a heavy clouser less ideal than a lighter one .. or a deciever bettern than a clouser .. let me know .. and then maybe we can all devise some maine salt spey flies .. according to and based ont he mother of all invention ... NEED.
Hey Jeremy,
I've been using the same flies when Spey Casting for Stripers as I did with a single-handed rod - that's been working well. I don't see any need to change patterns.
Weight is a factor though. Original Spey Flies were not weighted (beyond big wire shanks) and were designed with materials that allowed the fly to sink quickly despite not being real heavy. Hence the soft, long, flowing looks of Spey Flies. That soft flowing hackle doesn’t offer any support to the fly or resistance to sinking. (but it’s a bit delicate for Stripers )
I think they designed them that way because as you add weight to either style of fishing (single or double-handed) it becomes more difficult to pick the line and fly up for the next cast. So if they could get enough sink with a light fly they did. However, you can cast heavy 2/0 Clouser Minnows and other weighted flies but you have to make sure your using a nine-weight or heavier Spey Line. Even though you are often using a 12’ or longer rod if the line is a 7-weight and it will still only throw just so heavy a fly.
Lines,
I think those flat-wing flies are custom made for Spey. I love the look of those flies and I'm going to make it a goal of mine to tie some up. I have friends who rave about the flies and I've yet to try one. Time to change that and you just gave me a good reason - to Spey with them. It's fine to use flies you know work well but there's always a better mousetrap to be explored. Thanks for a good idea.
Joined: Oct 10, 2005 Posts: 26 Location: Old Orchard Beach, Maine
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:11 am Post subject:
No problem. I think flatwings are the ticket Jeremy's looking for. They will be light enough to spey cast with yet also have the length and breathable materials.
The only downside is the inability to tie a wide sided baitfish in that style. But hey, Stripers like Eely flies.
Joined: May 15, 2003 Posts: 888 Location: Portland, Maine
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: lines
lines ..you are exactly right .. i would love a spey version of the kenny abraham style featherwings ... those flies are sick! light but big and unbeatable motion in the water .. the striper guys i fish with in rhode island, that's almost all they use and tie ... and after really getting acquainted with those featherwing patterns and the way to fish them this past season ... i am a believer ... they are amazing flies ... i am sure you and mike can really come up with something sweet for featherwing patterns for spey .... imagine throwing those around this spring on some rivers?? you know where! you and i can put them to the test on spey and single handed rods ...
ps... how about a pollock featherwing? that would be unbelievable ... same color/pattern concept as the fly you gave me last spring but with a feathwerwing twist! ... what do ya think lines and mike? either way ... looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with.
Joined: Oct 10, 2005 Posts: 26 Location: Old Orchard Beach, Maine
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:47 pm Post subject:
First off let me tell you I know very little about Spey style flies. I can tie a Rhody flatwing but in all honesty I know many others that are far better than I at it. But what the hey I tied a fly for Jeremy before that landed a pig of a fish. I might as well try it again.
As I see it the Rhea feathers are somewhat of a cross between a feather and maribou. If you could imagine Maribou of a length about 4" than you got the idea of Rhea. It has the profile I'm looking for when palmered on the shank yet it is also very light. Not so shure about the durability.
Some of the Grocery flies would pose a problem while using a Spey rod. So that is why I'm leaning towards a white Rhody Flatwing in the tail. Body of palmered white Rhea feathers. Head with a little white BT on top and bottom, cheeks of another color. JC nails for eyes. Back topped off with 10 pcs of burnt Peacock Herl.
I think my main purpose here is to think outside the box and put something together that will work.
The above fly was tied by a guy on Reeltime. He goes by the name of David Strout. Check his stuff out cause he's tying exactly what we are looking for.
Joined: Nov 14, 2006 Posts: 22 Location: Monmouth, ME
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject:
jeremy wrote:
really? that answers allot of my questions about spey in salt (ocean)... i was thinking .. "oh man, what a nightmare it would be in big surf or ledges doing all of these water born spey casts .." i was invisioning the mess of line that would be wrapped around barnacles while the maine surf pounded away on the line and snags making the mess even worse .... so gilly09 ... basically you are saying that the simple solution is "just cast the spey rod overhand" ... that makes sense to me in ocean/surf casting applications...
..
After a few problems logging in, I can now join in this interesting discussion/topic.
I have tried spey casting for stripers in the Kennebec by Ft. Halifax, by 6 Mile Falls and by Cobbosee Stream outlet with waterborne casts -- there you can use them without too much hassle, considering the weight of the striper flies.
On the ocean, however, you need a stripping basket to strip your line into after tucking the rod under an armpit until you get all the line but the head into the basket, then do a quick snap T, or circle cast or Perry Poke to get your heavy fly up to the surface, then an overhead cast to get that baby out and let it fly. Trying a regular spey cast won't get you out more than 65 feet as the wind is generally blowing in your face.
Jefff on MFF, & from the Portland area uses this method quite effectively but I am still learning.
One thing you will learn is that for every foot of water you stand in, you lose 4 feet of casting range, so a longer rod is better if you are looking for distance. But you can still cover close water, just by very short casts, even as short as just the leader. Ever heard of Japanese flyfishing "tenkara." They basically have the line attached to the end of the rod, with no reel, and nymph or use a dry fly that way -- you can use your double-handed rod the same way for close in work.
I went to the international "Spey-O-Rama" in San Francisco early this year and watched the speycasting competition from the sidelines. The winnners consistently casted, right and left handed, 150 foot casts.
Steve Rajaeff (spelling) was there and using a spey rod and an overhead cast was able to shoot out 238 feet of line.
For starters, the best spey site on the web that is visited by national and international posters is: speypages.com/
The site has a great forum, great advice and links to some other resources. I'll post more on specific questions/threads as appropriate.
Glad to see others interested in this up and coming style of casting, whether you use the long rod or not.
I have a large list of spey sites that show the various casts and offer great advice and some interesting articles bookmarked that I will put up links for that you may find interesting.
I also have a list of 8 or so people who took the speycasting class through Mike's shop and have tried to arrange a mini-Maine speyclave several times -- maybe next year we will be successful.
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