Fly Fishing

jeremy

This is a topic that surfaces often. What is and isn't fly fishing. I have listened to the long winded debates and all of this stuff, and to be honest I simply get kinda bored. But, I am cognicent of always "fly fishing within the law" and so, i guess for me ... the "law" defines fly fishing. And, if I am not breaking the law .. well, I am fly fishing. My home state of Maine is a good example of this because many of our rivers are "Fly Fishing Only" ... so, there is no lack of debates and arguments and personal opinions as to what is and isn't fly fishing. But, at the end of the day .. it is the "law" that determines what is fly fishing. So, if you show up to a river here in Maine (for example) and it is labeled as "Fly Fishing Only" .. you are free to nymph, fish with a single handed rod, a double handed rod, swing spey flies, strip streames, fish intermediate line, fish floating line, dredge the bottom with 500 grain line, use indicators, high stick etc... my point is this ... all of those things (i think Very Happy

) - Are LEGAL .. so whether you prefer it or not .. it is Fly Fishing .. and maybe I like fly fishing with an indicator setup more than a dry fly .. nobody can tell me I don't and can't prefer that ... just like I can not say that "dry fly fishing .. is not fly fishing" .. because that would be a matter of opinion ...

So - Here is an interesting comment to a video I put up on youtube.com called "fly fishing - marlin" ... check out the dudes comment. He says .. "This guy is NOT fly fishing" ... really? See the difference here is not that he is wrong or right .. the difference here is how I personally view fly fishing ... it's pretty simple for me really ... was I breaking the law? no. Was I having fun. absolutely. Did i catch the marlin with a fly, using a fly rod and fly line? yup. So ... according to my definition of fly fishing ... I was fly fishing .. If this dude has another definition that makes sense to him .. that's fine .. but, that is his opinion. And, nobody can tell me that his opinion is or has to be my opinion ... And, if there is some sort of definition that makes sense if someone is fishing in an effort to be compliant with IGFA or something and wants to break a world record, that's fine ... but, that is not what i do .. i just like to have FUN catching fish on flies using a fly rod and fly line .. and if that's not "fly fishing" .. well than someone please tell me ... and i will glad refer to it as "fishing" ...

so with that said --- am i "fly fishing" here? .. the core difference here is i consider it a catch if i have caught a fish with a FLY and i am able to touch the fish ... i really don't have any clue .. nor do i really care about his definition of "boat must be out of gear" ... i am sure that makes sense to him and/or the big powers that be in the world of fly fishing and the guys who break world records and stuff like that .. but, i am just a guy from maine who caught a marlin on a fly, had a blast and according to my personal defintion .. i was fly fishing! ... maybe i wasn't .. and if that is the case .. i will change the title from "fly fishing - marlin" .. to "fishing - marlin" .. no biggy for me .. still had fun .. let me know what i should do!

Here is the video .. and here is the dudes comment found on youtube.com ..

Danomite2727 - "This guy isnt fly fishing he is trolling with a fly rod!!! That is NOT fly fishing. The boat must be out of gear in order for the catch to be considered a fly catch! "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3iwUAvTBeA

alex · Newbie Joined: Oct 11, 2004 Posts: 8

Jeremy, you could not have said it any better, as fly fishing has unlimited forms and for me I feel very strongly about this as any form of fly fishing whether it be trolling with flies, drifting past structure with flies down on the bottom all great forms of fly fishing. Fly fishing can not be limited to any degree and should be an open avenue to learn what is the most effective and legal way to catch fish using a fly. I love all forms of fly fishing and I am always trying to learn more about our wonderful sport.

jeremy · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:42 am Post subject: Flies and Fins definition

So - Ultimately I am looking for this:

WHAT IS THE FLIES AND FINS DEFINITION OF FLY FISHING?

Let's define it TOGETHER .. in a way that makes sense to all of us .. and be done with it. Once and for all! I propose this. Feel free to modify or adjust or point out "problems" ... All that matters to me .. is that we all collectively agree on the "Flies And Fins Definition Of Fly Fishing"

Here is my proposed definition.

Fly Fishing: Catching a fish with a fly using fly line and doing so within the guidelines of what is legal within the eyes of the law. "Legal within the eyes of the law" is relative to the unique rules and regulations that apply to any specific body of water and/or fishery.

Please ... criticize if i am missing the mark here .. or if you disagree .. or i am wrong .. this is just to get the ball rolling and to find a general concensus amongst all of us on flies and fins .. that defines "Fly Fishing" in a way that makes sense to US! ... help me out here .. as it would be cool to say .. Here is how Flies And Fins defines fly fishing .. thanks.

joey · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject:

I think fly fishing to me is defined by the cast and eqipment used (fly rod, fly line, flies etc...) I don't think trolling with a fly falls under the category of fly fishing. A certain amount of effort has to be involved and not just letting the boat do the work. I guess when I erase my mind and think of fly fishing what pops into my head is the cast. I Think of the different types of casts that are involved and the amount of effort and time it takes to learn these techniques. ex: You cannont do a 70 foot roll cast with a spool of mono.

greg · Newbie Joined: May 18, 2003 Posts: 38

The larger species of fish and strong fish often times need the boat to move so one will not be stripped off. This would apply to Tuna, Tarpon, Bone fish, Marlin, etc. . Wether or not the motor is engaged is only relevant in states that have laws forbidding trolling using a fly rod in fresh water! Only someone who doesn't know how to fish for large game fish would stay stationary while being stripped of. I would be interested in how many large game fish the above person has caught standing still. I've ran down river banks for Trout and Atlantic Salmon, etc. I suppose it would be more sportsman like watching my 60.00 fly line be stripped from my reel.

Fly fishing by my definition is catching a fish on a fly and fly rod. Talks cheap, rum costs money. I'd be glad for you to video your next big game trip and show us how you land a 150 lb. fish being stationary.

Boz · Newbie Joined: Oct 16, 2005 Posts: 61 Location: Portland

I'm with Joey on this... as fly fishing to me is casting flies to fish. Sure you can tie a streamer on a fly rod and drag it around the lake by motor...but is this really "fly fishing"? As you could tie the same flie on a spin or bait casting rod and drag it around a lake too. Hell, guys with centerpin rigs or even spin rods fish flies often...certainly not fly fishing. To me fly fishing is when a loop of Fly line carrys the fly to water.

Funny you mention trolling in salt waters... Was the boat moving when you were casting a fly? Maybe...who cares. Cause ultimately you were still presenting a fly by casting...not just dragging it throught the ocean. The guy who made that comment likely doesn't chase fast fish by boat with a flyrod. You could sit in a boat bobbing around the ocean hoping fish pop up withing casting range... but if I saw albies/marlin/bluefin/whatever pop up a quarter mile from me in a boat I'd say there they are hit the ^@#$*^ gas! As someone has stated before fly fishing the salt there are no hard and fast rules, and codes of conduct... you see fish on top, you want to be casting to them period.

Take stillwaters here in Maine and there are set rules...lots of them. For example on fly fishing only still waters you cannot troll your fly. This means even dragging a fly by canoe or float tube as you move to a new spot. Illegal. Or if you are floating on a windy lake and the wind is blowing your boat and you are not actively stripping the fly is also illegal.

In terms of a boat being in gear in saltwater while you cast and strip a fly and catch a marlin not counting? Sounds like someone is jealous Rolling Eyes

ChrisR · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject:

+1 with Joey. If your using a fly line your fly fishing due to the method in which you cast it. If it was about what is at the end of your line then 80% or more aren't fly fishing in the eyes of the conservative fly fisherman. There would be no possible way to fish the salt under their definition of it. You certainly aren't going to trick a hungry Albie with a number 14 Adams. And the whole wet dry thing is crap IMO opinion also. Nymphs are still technically flies in their larval form. One thing I hate is folks that dog the wooly bugger. It still imitates a dragon or damsel nypmh. I won't even get into streamers. In my eyes it is all good if it is at the end of my fly line.

rhodyflyguy · Newbie Joined: Mar 17, 2007 Posts: 16

I think that to flyfish, you have to cast, and when casting, the rod has to be loaded by the line. That's the standard definition of flyfishing, and part of what makes flyfishing a challenge. I don't think that paying out line behind a boat qualifies as fly fishing. I also don't like the idea of chumming up fish when fly fishing. I fly fish because it is often a challenge. I have fished with bait a lot in the past, and fished with live bait this summer when a guy I know located a school of very large stripers, but really have started trying to get away from that. I think that what you did in that video definitely qualifies as fly fishing. From what I've heard, you do a lot of searching to find marlin, and it is not uncommon to come up empty when fishing for them. You hunt for them, just like you do any other fish. Your casts need to be accurate, and as was made more then evident by your video, it is really a fight to land them. Also, that guy who commented on your video was wrong about the boat not being in neutral. You guys were yelling at the captain to put the boat in neutral, which he did, but all boats continue to move after you stop. And you cast to the fish, you didn't pay out line and drag the fly behind the boat.

jeremy · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: joey

good points. and that is what is cool ... being friends and both having different "definitions" of fly fishing based on personal preference .. because, i read your post .. and though i can relate .. i simply don't see it the same way... to me .. it is as simple as ..

was fish caught with a fly and fly fishing line?
was the "fly" fishing method legal?

than, it's fly fishing ...

note: notice how i say "fly line" and "fly" because ... a fly could certainly be fished with a conventional rod and reel .. but if "fly line" is part of the equation .. it makes it nearly impossible to fish flies with conventional gear ... where as i have seen in the saltwater alot of guys use a fly for a dropper off their poppers that they cast with conventional gear .. so, in that case .. according to my personal opinion orientated defintion .. that would not be fly fishing because fly line is not being used ....

whatever ... it's for these type of reasons and pointless discussions that i sometimes don't like fly fishing ... because i don't see any of it has "hard" .. brain surgery is "hard" .. splitting atoms is "hard" ... if i had to be totally honest .. i would say that fly fishing, in all forms, is no different or harder or easier than any other form of fishing .. period... at the end of the day ... it is just another method of fish .. and pretty silly really ... at the end of the day ... it's a bunch of people trying to catch fish with hook .. period .. whether there is a fly, lure or bait on the hook is a mute point .. and how someone perceives the level of difficulty in regards to each is just that .. perception .. and an opinion ...

i just think that fly fishing is often, for some reason, amongst fly fisherman to be considered something "more difficult" or "more refined" ... common ... that's a joke .. at the end of the day and from a "bigger picture" perspective fly fishing and everything else can be wrapped up into one massive category ... "FISHING" ... so, the perception of fly fishing being this or that or more difficult than any other form of fishing is simply an opinion ... and the perception amongst fly fisherman of dry fly is harder than nymphing, and nymphing is not fly fishing and spey fishing is harder and all that stuff .. is not based in reality it all .... it is all subjective opinion .....

so --- the definition of fly fishing for me remains .......

fish caught with fly using fly line within the definition of legal as defined by the law = fly fishing

i am curious to what the actual Definition in the dictionary is???

waterwhippa · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject:

If the weight of your line is propelling your fly you are fly fishing.

jeremy · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: boz

boz ..

i think you stated it perfectly, and again .. love how you are in agreement with joey .. but, i still disagree .. but, that's cool .. THAT is what makes life fun ... if everyone thought the same way about things and agreed on everything that would bore me silly .. could you imagine having something like MUSIC defined in terms of "music is either this or that" .. that would suck! big time! you might like jaz . i might hate it .. you might think classical piano is "hard" .. i may have been playing mozart and reading music since i was 10 .. in which case it's a breeze for me and i look at you in awe playing and singing a bob dylan tune on guitar while all i can do is play beethoven's 5th symphony on piano ! .. it's all perception and it's all good .. and as fly fishermen .. we all have our OWN unique intepretations of what is harder/easier what should be and shouldn't be and all of that ... but at the end of the day, that's all they are is interpretations and opinions ... so, if you hate trolling a fly for marlin .. that's fine .. i might hate throwing dry flies for salmon ... but, maybe we both like steelheading! ... just like anything else with friends or anyone ... some things you will like, some things i will like, sometimes the things you like i won't and visa versa ... but .. i don't believe that anybody has the right to say that "my way is this or that" and "my way is the way it should be" .... that kind of mentality would suck big time in life, music, fly fishing etc.... and what i love most about, let's say the city of portland maine (that i live in) .. is the diversity .. if everyone was like me, that would suck .. if everyone wore the same suit and tie, i'd move ... if everyone had the same house and worked at the same factory and listened to the same music and at the same food and went to bed at exactly the same time ... i'd move. what i like about portland maine is when i walk the streets there are all types of characters, busiiness folks, musicians playing on the street, people with tattoo's and nose rings, people wearing polo sweaters, people walking dogs, people protesting something or other, tourists coming off of cruise ships, lobsterman unloading their catch on the pier .... for me, i like portland maine for the DIVERSITY and ... it's all of these types of people and belief systems living together that make it a rich, vibrant place to live .... that's why i live here ... and as long as all of these people are "doing their thing" and not breaking the law ... it's all good ...

so - that is how i view fly fishing ..... without the diversity and differences of opinion and differences of likes and dislike ... it would not interest me. and, as long as i am not breaking the law when i am fly fishing ... than, nobody can tell me that what i am doing is "the right way, the easy way, the wrong way etc." .. and i have no right to judge "their way" .. because right, wrong, should, could, hard, easy, better, worse .. is all a matter of personal opinion!

PS. great point about the differences in regards to trolling a fly in the saltwater and trolling a fly in maine freshwater fly fishing only water ... if i want to troll a fly in saltwater and call it fly fishing, nobody has the right to tell me i can't call it fly fishing or i can't do it .. i have the right to call it whatever the heck i want! ....... conversely, if i want to troll a fly in maine's "fly fishing only" waters i am breaking the law, in which case people can ABSOLUTELY tell me that it is NOT fly fishing and I CAN'T do it ... very good point boz .. thanks ...

good point ..

Austin · Newbie Joined: Jan 10, 2005 Posts: 80

I feel as though this guy is very out of line! Jeremy, as it looks like in the video, the marlin were aroused by the teasers, and when the marlin were chasing the teasers, you would make the cast to the marlin that were in heavy pursuit of the teasers hoping that you could get them to hit the fly. You would then strip the fly some and try to keep the fly moving using the CURRENT produced by the boat to try and get the marlin to take the fly. Sound like fly fishing to me! If this guy beleives that the boat must be in a complete hault in order for it to be "a fish caught on a fly", then i wonder if he believes that swinging flies for steelhead, trout, salmon, etc is considered fly fishing. Swinging flies just allows the current to move the fly into the fishes feeding lane.....and it seems as though in the marlin video, you were also using the current to put the fly into the feeding lane. If the technique you used to present your fly to the marlin was not legit, than in my opinion all other forms of swinging flies should be banned from the fly fishing lawbook as well.

For me.....what you did was perfectly legit and should be considered fly fishing. You tied on a fly and had a fly rod in your hand didn't you? If you have a fly rod using a FLY, than whatever you do with that fly is up to....wheather you swing it, dead drift it, nymph it, strip it, etc......for me this is still fly fishing.

KodiakCommando · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject:

jeremy · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject: wow

wow! .. this is obviously a topic that, like all good debatable topics, has no real answer ... and the only worthwhile answer, i believe, resides in a willingness for everyone to accept other peoples opinions as valid ... or just decide on a meeting place in let's say a wallmart parking lot .. and have a huge brawl, that would be fun too Very Happy

.. although probably more fun for everyone else and less fun for me .. cuz it seems as though i'd get my but kicked and there would be alot of you (even my "friends") kicking me when i am down Very Happy

... so, alex and austing .. it looks like it's me and you taking on all of them ... or should we just go trolling for marlin instead! Smile

----- ok so, rhodyflyguy .. you make a great point .. and i think this is a great example .. and points out that perception is everythin ----

you say .. "I also don't like the idea of chumming up fish when fly fishing"

that is funny .. because when i go down to florida this year, i am not particularly excited to spend time on the flats ... this year, i have been talking to my friend ed about going deep and chumming up sharks and blackfin tuna and all sorts of other stuff .... i absolutely see that as fun (for me and ed) .. and absolutely a form of fly fishing (in my opinion) .. and though i love dry fly fishing for wild rainbow trout here in maine .. or chasing tuna on natural bait here in maine or chasing albeis on natural bait with you in rhode island ... i equally as much like the idea of using CHUM bags to create a huge chum slick and waiting to see what kind of monsters appear .. maybe sharks, tuna, kingfish, big barracuda etc... whatever the case .. when they appear i will definately be throwing a fly in their direction and trying to trick them with a fly ... in my mind, no difference between this and throwing dry flies in maine on fly fishing only waters to picky native brook trout ... both fly fishing .. just different games ..

but .. if you don't like the game of chumming, and don't see it as "fly fishing" that's totally cool .. i can appreciate that a great deal ... all i am suggesting is that it's a truth that i like that game and i definately see it as "fly fishing" ... so neither of us is right or wrong or better or worse and i am definately fly fishing (in this case) within the context of the law .... hence, i still stand by my OPINION orientated definition of fly fishing as:

fly fishing = fishing with a fly using fly line within the context of what is determined to be legal as defined by the specific laws that govern any specific fishery or body of water.

simpson · Newbie Joined: Oct 05, 2006 Posts: 5

my definition of fly fishing is using a fly rod, fly line and fly reel to fool a fish into eating your fly. period. you often have to adapt the tactics you use in the different waters that you fish in order to catch fish. and thats what is great about fly fishing. from fishing to rising trout with dries to chumming up giants from the deep blue ocean its all fly fishing just using different techniques. i love it all and i am still just a beginner.

rhodyflyguy · Newbie Joined: Mar 17, 2007 Posts: 16

You know what, Jeremy? You just made me remember that when I go to Key West this year, I really wanted to do the same as you, go offshore and chum with live bait and catch blackfins, albies, and whatever else I could. I hadn't thought about that when I posted. I guess what I "define" as fly fishing changes quite a bit. Now that you've got me thinking about catching blackfin on a fly rod, I'm back to thinking that to fly fish, you just need a fly line that loads the rod when you deliver the fly.

jeremy · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: yup

rhody ... i hear ya, i want a blackfin tuna just like you .. and i know that for whatever reason, they are not always plenitful "on top" like our tunoid species are up here in the northeast .. so, of course, it goes without saying that i would love to chase and catch blackin the way we do here with albies/bonito/bluefin .. but, the reality is that they are not alway up on top down there .. and the game is played a bit differently behind shrimp boats and tossing piltchers or whatnot over wrecks to bring the tuna up .. and if that's what i gotta do to catch a blackfin .. than count me in big time ..... i am heading down to florida next week and will be playing the flats game/everglades game/offshore game ... i am really hoping to lock horns with a blackfin and lot's of other stuff .... let me know before you go down, send me pm or call my cell . and will give you some info .. in regards to what i learn when i am doing some offshore fly fishing down there .. thanks man.

jeremy · Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: fly fishing root

ok .. so .. i was just about to go to bed .. and i was thinking about this post and all of the opinions as to what "defines fly fishing" ... then i thought about a question that i don't know the answer to.

Why was fly fishing invented in the first place? was it invented as a means to CATCH fish or as a means to cast the line? I don't know the answer .. but my gut tells me .. that at some point way way way way back in the history of FISHING ... fly fishing was invented in an effort to achieve the goal of CATCHING. someone somewhere saw a trout feeding on dry flies and realized "wow, i can't catch that fish unless i devise a way to present a floating lure that represents a fly" .... now, follow me here because this is critical .... there is an old saying that says "NEED is the mother of all invention" ... with that said .. whoever first invented fly fishing, proably did so because of the NEED to CATCH that trout ... so, if that were true than the person who invented fly fishing .. didn't do so for any artistic representation of anything ... the person did so because of an age old NEED TO CATCH FISH .... my point is this, i'd be willing to bet that at the ROOT CORE of fly fishing .... after all the fluff and nonsense is stripped away .... it is no different than any other form of FISHING and at the end of the day ... it is a form of fishing that ultimately fulfills a FISHERMANS NEED to catch fish .... so yes i like the fly casting and the feel of a fish on a fly reel and at some point feel that it is so much more than just the act of fishing and catching fish ... but at the same time, i can also recognize my own personal desire and NEED as a FISHERMAN to catch fish ....

my bottom line point here is ... i wonder if the first person to ever catch a fish on a fly ... did so because of a NEED to fulfill some artistic/refined objective ... or did so because of a NEED to catch a fish...? ...

my point here is .. maybe we are trying to define the act fly fishing .. without considering the person performing the act .. the FLY FISHERMAN ... when looking at it from that perspective .. it's clear that what a "fisherman" is ... infact the actual dictionary definition is "someone whose occupation is catching fish" ... as you can see, CATCHING FISH is a big part of the definition ... so, when some folks say "it's not all about catching fish" .. i say .. if your a "fisherman" it is .. if your not a "fisherman" than maybe it's not ... so, i do consider myself to be a "fisherman" ... now, simply add the word "fly" before fisherman ... and it is pretty simple really ... ""someone whose occupation is catching fish with a fly)"

nowhere does that say anything about casting or streamers or dry flies or spey flies or nymphing or double haul or single haul or floating line or sinking line or split shot or indicator or wet flies or any of that menutia ... the definition of a fly fisherman simply says ...

"someone whose occupation is catching fish with a fly"

that makes perfect sense to me .. infact, it describes me perfectly! ... of course we could remove the word "occupation" because that is a result of days gone past in reference to the definition of "fisherman" .. and we would be left with ...

FLY FISHERMAN
"someone who is catching fish with a fly"

alex · Newbie Joined: Oct 11, 2004 Posts: 8

Fly fishing is too complex to sum up so easily as it is unlimited and gives the individual there own personal way of defining it, and when all is said and done, thats what makes are sport so beautiful.

jeremy · Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: well said

alex ... well said .. and that solves it for me ... in the sense that .. the answer is in the eyes of the beholder ... so here is the definition of fly fishing for ME.

i am going fishing ... if i catch something on a FLY and I am fishing within the context of what is considered legal ... i am calling it fly fishing ... anyone else is free to call is whatever they want ... period..

hedrush999 · Newbie Joined: Aug 16, 2004 Posts: 49

There are so many different fish, techniques, casts, presentations, flies, rods, reels, lines, boats, etc. that make up our sport. In many cases, in order to catch a fish on a fly rod, one needs to adapt their skills to make the fish eat. Fishing for bonefish takes different skills than fishing for steelhead. So the term fly fishing actually has different meanings for different demographics. To try to define something that is so complex, and spiritual for that matter, in one sentence is almost impossible and utterly absurd.

I love to fish, especially with a fly rod, but when the conditions aren't right for the whip stick, I'll pick up a spinning rod and throw hardware and enjoy every minute of it. Ever throw a cuda tube at a barracuda and reel it back as fast as you can? If not, you should try it because it is fuckin awesome!

This post falls into the same category as a nice quiet conversation about politics or religion at the dinner table. It must be really cold up north as it doesn't look like there is a lot of fishing going on. Come to FL, fly, drive, whatever...you can sleep on my couch, and we'll fish instead of bullshit.

jeremy · Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: alex - uroguay

alex --- you leaving for uruguay today or tomorrow? how far is that from where you are in argentina .. i looked on google earth and it's looks pretty close? big tuna and shark offshore or what ??? i am so jealous ... crazy that it is summer time there now and winter here in the united states .... argentina is sick ... right now, i am looking at your video from trout fishing at "the end of the world" last week .. (will post it today) .. fishing big flies with the boys in patagonia ... now, your off to uruguay for some tuna and shark on the fly .. then, just when wiinter starts to arrive in argentina .. you come to the usa and fish northeast salt ... you got a pretty good gig going on ;; .. good luck uruguay ... should have the patagonia trout video up today for you and the boys in patagonia! .. working on it now ..

alex · Newbie Joined: Oct 11, 2004 Posts: 8

The fly fishing world here is incredible as one day you can be fishing to beautiful trout in Patagonia and the next week salt water fly fishing for sharks or tuna from shore or boat.. really unlimited here in Argentina there are many species of yellow fin four hours from me also, "Pes lemon" and just think Brazil has 4,000 miles of beach.... tons to learn and Uruguay is still really wild unknown to me especially and I live an hour and half from there if you cross via the rivers systems, which we do in search of big dorado. I can't wait to see what you put together for us as the only thing we missed was you here on the boat. although you are always with us spiritually brother. South America is waiting for you bro, this week I will be focusing in on Uruguay and learning more about there waters...Alex