Fly Fishing

Boz · Newbie Joined: Oct 16, 2005 Posts: 61 Location: Portland

I know not everyone chooses to hire guides, but for those who do... What three things do you consider the most when looking at potential guides?

For me I'd say:

1. Is the guide energetic? Is the guide as amped up to see you catch fish as they would be catching fish themself? Nobody wants a day on the water where they feel the guide is just going through the motions.

2. How well does the guide know the area you want to fish? Most guides have a limited area that they call home waters. If a guide will fish you anywhere any time I'd be cautious. Look for guides who intimately know and area and offer something unique.

3. Talk to the guide before you book. You can tell alot about someones personality from a short conversation. Fishing can be unpredictable, if your guide works hard and has a good sense of humor you'll likely have a killer day if the fishing is hot or not.

jeremy · Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: Choosing A Fly Fishing Guides

Great topic boz. For some reason, there seems to be a general "one-size-fits-all" mentality when it comes to fly fishing guides. Why? Nothing in life is as such. Let's take restaurants for example .. It would be totally boring if all there was available was 1 restaurant to eat at and we had to eat all of our meals at this restaurant. No way .. there are tons of different restaurants that have different menu options, different prices, casual, formal etc... and none are necessarily "better" than the next ... "best" is dependant on the person who wants to eat .. sometimes the best thing for me is a cheesburger or a slice of pizza that i can eat while walking down a city street .. other times, especially here in maine, its lobster (there is no lack of lobster .. and whenever people come to visit the first words out of their mouth are "let's get some lobster.") ... sometimes lobster rolls at any general store suffice, other times go buy lobster and cook it at home and eat it like cavemen (no utensils .. just a hammer and butter) other times go to some fancy whiz bang place on the water, overlooking the ocean where a cup of chowder is 5 bucks and 1 small lobster is 18 bucks ... the point is ... there is variety, and "best" is dependant on the mood, the budget and the objective ... but all options are "best" at one point or another, just not all of the time.

So, I often fly fish in areas that I am unfamiliar with and often look for fly fishing guides ... but, then many times resolve to just going it alone because all of the guides seem to be doing exactly what all the other guides are doing .. their marketing stuff reads like I am hiring a surgeon or a lawyer or something ... references to "clients" and such .. seriously, we are fishing here not structuring up a big merger and acquisition ... any time i hear "clients" mixed in with fly fishing .. i am definately not interested ... if my accountant refers to me as his "client" that makes perfect sense .. but if a guide refers to me as his "client" .. it just doesn't sit well ... i am a fisherman, not his/her "client" ... maybe that is just a pet pieve of mine? Also, when browsing their websites .. i see alot of pictures of them .. and alot of marketing verbage about all of their accomplishments and awards and certifications etc.. and that doesn't do much for me ... I often just scan the text looking for words like "catch", "fun", "enjoy", "unique", etc.. and a lack of words such as "I", "Me", "Best", etc.... the very last thing i want to do is spend any time at all on the water with some dude who is convinced that it is my priveladge to fish with him .. no thanks.

Another thing that I look for is .. does the guide recognize that it's a big world and their little fishery is only a piece of the puzzle? Often, I think that a guide in any 1 region of the world, forgets that what they know and their expertise is relative to the area that they fish ... they by no means know it all in regards to the bigger picture, but it seems that many times an ego can cloud someones ability to recognize that they only know a small piece of the puzzle .. its simply NOT possible for any 1 person to be a "fly fishing expert" ... it just sounds so stupid ... because take the "expert steelhead guide" and plop him on an australia saltwater flat and he's no longer an expert of anything .. and the visa versa is true .. meaning, take a saltwater fly fisherman who is infact an expert at targeting and fishing for let's say mako sharks but never trout fished (or maybe just a couple times on vacation) ... point being, put that dude over some tricky rising wild trout and he's not much of an expert anymore ..

Ok .. I am going off on a tangent, too much coffee this morning I guess .. so here are my 3 top things i consider when choosing a guide.

1. does it fit MY mood for the trip at hand? trips, moods, budget and objectives change ... so what I am looking for is not the same all the time .. if 1 guide can and does offer various packages, great ... but, let's take florida for example and if i have a budget for 3 days of guided trip .. maybe 1 day i will go offshore for tuna with an offshroe captain and the next day flats fish way offshore in the marqueses or something and the next day, do a trip with a wading guide or a guide to help me out on a lower budget and the lower budget is warranted because now we don't need to pay for gas and all that stuff ... so, each option is "best" for me according to the variables at hand .. am i alone? if so that will affect my budget because 2 or 3 certainly makes thing cheaper .. etc..

2. Is the guide going to be able to muster up the energy to make me feel as though he is as amped up as me .. yah, i know he guides 6 gazillion days per year and blah blah blah .. but ya know what, this is my trip and my money ... and the last thing i want is a guide that is going to be looking at his watch all day waiting for the work bell to ring so he can take me to the dock like every other tourist and get a big fat tip ... no. i want a guide that i can fish with like a friend.. how bout a guide that might ask me some questions rather than telling me about all of his accomplishments .... a guide that can listen better than talk is priceless. because, then his words and recommendations and tips will be contextual to me ..

3. for me .. make no doubt .. i want to catch fish .. i am not interested in going out for a joy ride and hoping for the best .. i am there primarily to catch fish and hiring this dude to help me accomplish that goal ... if i wanted a casting lesson, i could do that on someones front yard for a lot less money. others may enjoy casting lessons and all that fluff, not me though ... i am paying to find and catch fish. period. i know that "fishing is fishing" and that doesn't always happen .. but, call me foolish, when i hire a guide i certain part of me IS expecting it to happen .. that is why i personally am paying. i appreciate other fly fishers who don't like catching fish or it's not their primary objective .. but, that is simply not me. i like catching fish.

4. one final one ... i don't like feeling as though i owe my fishing soul to this person .. i have encountered many guides who lead people to believe that it's "their water" .. and to fish it without them is a "no-no" .. ya know what .. no way, that is totally uncool .... you can't have your cake and eat it to ... if you want to keep your spots only to you and yourself, than .. STOP GUIDING ... if i hire an albie guide on marthas vineyard .. i am infact paying for the knowledge .. and i am going to use that knowledge possibly for the rest of my life .. that is what i paid for ... i just don't like how fly fishermen are often lead to believe that its not cool to fish "the guides water" alone or without him ... common, that is what you paid for ... When the guide SELLS his services .. he no longer owns the knowledge ... just like if i hire a custom cabinet maker .. i totally respect all that he knows and value his work and that's why i pay him ... but, after his work is complete and i pay him .. i own the cabinets ...

so - the bottom line is that ... i enjoy fly fishing guides .. especially if i can hire the ones that are "best" for me ... i also like guides that are down to earth, fun, good at what they do and recognize that we may fish together in the future and we may not ... i also like guides that recognize they are excellent at what they do, but the world of fly fishing is much bigger than their little piece of the puzzle .. and a guide that soft sells me rather than hard sells me ... if i have a great trip and experience with a guide .. i will WANT to call him and go out with him again ... If i don't have a good trip or don't like the way he presents himself to begin with .. no amount of email newsletters about "special pricing trips" are going to change that ..... i think a truly good guide doesn't have to "sell" himself .. his work and reputation sells itself .... and finally, i enjoy all flavors depending on the situation and budget at hand .. fast offshore boats with licensed captains, light kevlar flats boats to get me out to some off shore flats and wading around or using canoes/kayaks ... it's ALL GOOD . it's ALL FUN if the right guide is chosen .. and i LOVE doing it ALL .. but, like everyone else (including guides themselves) .. I have a budget ... and sometimes I can afford X and other times I can afford Y and other times I can't afford anything at all ....... and i think the fly fishing world would be a much cooler place if all of the guides worldwide recognized that not all fly fisherman are the same .. hence they offered various packages that were unique and catered to various personalities, budgets and styles ... you know, mix it up ... afterall, this is entertainment .. not neuroscience .. so, i like an amusement park with lot's of different rides and options .. some fast, some slow, some that make me throw up and others that are great for the whole family .. but, an amusement park with 1 ride .. would stink... i like diversity and options .. that, in the end, is what keeps fly fishing FUN for me .... ok, i'm done .. gotta get another cup of coffee...

Zeebaars · Newbie Joined: Jul 17, 2008 Posts: 8

What Jeremy said... Laughing

Seabass

NiC · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:00 am Post subject:

I think that the guides attitude also depend on the person beeing guided.
I have done some guiding myself and YES I have said No to guiding some people. I think that it is important for a good guide also to be able to say No to costumers/flyfishers who he know he is not going to enjoy guiding. As Boz wrote, you can tell alot about a persons personallity from just talking to him/her on the phone.

Regarding my own experiences with guides, I have met some really good guides and some that I don't wanna be guided by again.
I think that it is important for me as a costumer/flyfisherman to make clear to the guide what I want from the trip. If the guide then tries to avoid the issue that I have mentionted, I choose not to use him.

Last I will say that I only use guides when fishing in another country and waters that I don't know. I'd rather try the fishing by myself. Here comes the money issue again...
Wink