Fly Fishing

jeremy · Location: Portland, Maine

Looking to possibly try some new flies (not absolutely certain about this, as my 'security blanket' are egg patterns .. just wondering what others feel comfortable fishing when searching new steelhead water ... what i mean is that, when i have an egg pattern on i feel very comfortable (maybe a false sense of security .. but whatever) and feel that if i am not getting any hook ups than its not me .. its likely that there are not that many willing fish .. now, to be totally honest .. if i switch to anything else, i don't have that comfort ... so, what do others feel most comfortable with in terms of steelhead flies .. my answer would be as follows

1. egg pattern (straight up glow bug)
2. egg sucking leach
3. stonefly (but not really for me, honestly i have only hooked 1 steelhead on a stonefly)

PS. word on the street is that dead drifted RABBIT strip black/white wooly buggers are really producing some good results .. i have heard it from more than one person .. mostly on erie and pa fisheries .. ?? has anyone tried this?

ok - one more thing .. if a guy were to swing a spey fly --- what might be a go to spey fly? ..

spector82 · Location: Biddeford ME

Jeremy,.. RE: the stonefly nymphs,... try quartering a gold bead head golden Kaufman, quick 3 inch strips retrieve across known lies,.... I slammed the fall landlocks with this technique this past fall, Steelhead are no different. It doesn't need to sink too deep, just a foot or so.

Also try this pattern...
Steelhead THOR
red thread
Hook: size 4-1/0 heavy salmon iron
3 winds small gold oval tinsel
tag: bright orange floss
Body:dyed red seal/polar bear tied rather thick under,... wound silver oval over
grey squirrel wing
sparse dark red brown hackle beard

Fish just like the Kaufman stone,... 3 inch quick strips across lies.

Screw those dead drifted egg patterns, boring fishing.

jeremy · Location: Portland, Maine

Hey - i hear ya .. good choice .. although, i am not too sure about the stripping .. maybe swinging? or dead drifting ...

not to get in an argument, but you say ... "Screw those dead drifted egg patterns, boring fishing"

my response to that .. is "i guess, like anything else it depends how you fish it" .. i like fishing egg patterns using a switch rod .. practicing my spey casts, casting sometimes as much line as i possibly can (not just nymphing at my feet) and trying to achieve dead drifts from on opposite side of river in big burly pocket type water ... maybe it is for some folks ... but that is not boring for me by any means ... constantly trying to improve casts, get better at reading water, line control and get the perfect presentation and drift ... requires my full attention and i am constantly trying to figure out what is going on beneath the water in terms of where fish might lie, micro currents etc...

so, maybe that would be boring for you ... but its not for me.

Anyway, ... anyone else got any "go to flies?" ...

spector82 · Location: Biddeford ME

jeremy · Location: Portland, Maine

nice fish .. nice fly! .... don't get me wrong, me too! ... i love a fish taking a streamer or dry as much as the next guy .. but just like when trout are on dry flies, you can strip a streamer all day and have only minimal success because they are keyed in on the dry fly at that point and time .. when salmon are on smelt, here in maine, to fish anything other than a smelt or a streamer would be kind of silly .. AND, when steelhead are eating EGGS ... it makes some sense to dead drift eggs .. and dead drift them due to the fact that eggs don't swim .. is that to say the steelhead when eating eggs won't take spey flies, streamers, nymphs etc.. of course not ... i am merely saying that when searching for steelhead the hard part can be finding them (never mind getting them to take) .. so, when searching .. i use the egg pattern to make the task of finding fish a little less daunting .. then, if i am lucky enough to find a nice pod or concentration of fish .. i often switch to something diffferent .. my initital question was not necessarily what types of flies could i use (as there are millions of options and variations) .. my question was, what is the best fly to use for searching pattern? ... i have a tough time departing from the dead drifted egg pattern when search for steelhead in the great lakes .. that's all...

sweet fish though --- guess i should have gone with you that day Very Happy

Barbless · Posted: Tue 11/04/08 9:30 am Post subject:

Jeremy-

I have the blessing of living in Buffalo between both Erie and Ontario Tribs. For the last 3 years I have eliminated eggs completely from my arsenal. The results have been remarkable. Times when things got slow and would have normally switch to dead drifting, I would stay strong and continue swinging with the spey rod. I have gone into pools heavily fished by eggers, both pinners and fly guys. Yet I would still pick up fish on the swing. The truth is, that many of these very aggressive fish often seen enough of egg patterns and are more prone to slamming flies on the swing. Not to mention you tend to get larger brighter fish and the tug makes a 1 fish day worth while. Good patterns that we use here are Clousers, White Soft Hackles, Black articulated leeches for muddy days, and small drab naturals for clear day. It is under the assumption that fish wont take swung flies late fall and into the winter as the temps drop. However if you go slower and deeper with T-14 you will still pick up big fish when ice is building in your guides. It is all about the confidence of the fly you have on. I am not saying that egging is bad, because its highly effective. But when things arent working, dont overlook the swing. Its a 180 change and very often produces. We fished the Salmon for 4 days last year in January and ended up catching the same number of fish on slow swings than we did with eggs. Often times we would egg the hell out of a pool and then switch to swing just to change it up, sometimes producing fish on the first cast.

Joe_M · Location: Boston

Streamers -- Bunny string leeches in purple or white with big eyes and a little flash (not too much). For spey flies I like blue over purple marabou with guinea collar and dyed royal blue pheasant cheeks with big eyes or royal blue, black or pink shrimp tied in GP style. For nymphs other than eggs I like copper Johns tied with red or purple estaz. But I'm coming from a West Coast point of view.

joey · Location: Colorado

I like the fleshy glo bug pattern that a few of us tie. It has worked well for all of us who fish it. But when things are not panning out Ill try other patterns and have had luck on all of them.

steelhead hammer
Purple Egg Sucking Leech
Caddis Larvae

Definately Worth a shot.

Boz · Location: Portland

For Steelhead in NY its hard to stray hard from the old Glow bug/egg patterns, as they always seem to hook fish. And there are so many Salmon/brown trout eggs around.

For Erie tribs I've caught fish on eggs, but also use:

1. Stonefly nymphs
2. Wooly buggers/egg sucking leeches
3. Sculpins/shiner patterns
4. caddis nymphs/ hex nymphs

There aren't as many eggs in these waters as there are on the Salmon River...

Steelie · Location: Erie, PA

I usually fish a tandem with a *zonker* or egg pattern lead fly and a stone or caddis dropper. It just works. Period. I am picking up a switch rod soon and am really getting interested in swinging flies. So my tactics may change here soon.

*see jeremys first post*

Mike

Curro · Location: Fayetteville NY

Try a bead head Caddis larvae. Works wonders when steelies are not grabbing eggs. For the SR I tie them fairly large size 10 scud hook. If you are looking to try a different type of egg patterns I use cyrstal meths in a size 12 scud hook-white/pearl, pink and orange. Those are very effective as well.

jeremy · Location: Portland, Maine

Curro -- NICE options. I will certainly add those to my list of "Best Bets" ... In regards to the caddis larvae, is there a time of year when this is better than other times of year .. or, have you found that it works equally as good all times of year. As far as those crystal meths go, the are definately "nice egg options" and I bet they work well because they almost double as a sucker spawn immitation or a cluster of salmon eggs. Suckers have super tiny eggs and during the sucker spawn, I have seen the effectiveness of "the glo bug" diminish. I wonder if this crystal meth might be the answer ..?

Steelie · Location: Erie, PA

In the spring white sucker spawn is the answer. It effectively matches a cluster of sucker eggs, which are white. Tie it with angora yarn. Also, Jer, I have noticed that a green caddis is most effective during the spring. Just my observation, but this time of year they want something darker. A stone, prince, PT...etc.

Curro · Location: Fayetteville NY

jeremy · Location: Portland, Maine

Awesome info. Interesting that you change to the "angora" in the spring and that the caddis larvae are "active in very cold water" .. i did not know that. I will say this, I see alot of guys use this cadis type pattern in the spring and absolutely crush steelhead, and its virtually impossible to get a steelhead in on an egg. I will definately add this fly to my arsenal. Oh ya, I am a huge believer in white egg patterns, especially in late fall and winter months when the natural salmon eggs have lost their yellow'ish color and are infact white. I have had great success on white and off-white colored egg patterns. Which brings up an interesting topic .. WHAT IS UP WITH THE COLORS?? I mean seriously it always seems to be "pink is working, blue is working, yellow is working, chartreuse is working etc...?" I have, at times, thought "what a bunch of nonsense, color does not matter." BUT, then been convinced that color does matter when I am using let's say a yellow egg pattern and my friend is using let's say pink ... and HE is lighting up the steel and I can't hook a fish to save my life .. and at those times I have no problem whatsoever going over to my friend and saying, "give me one of those flies." ... So, what's the deal .. is BLUE really good at certain times when yellow is not, etc..? And, has anyone else ever heard of the reason why "blue" in particular is viewed by so many as "the best color?" ...... I would say that my favorite and best producing 1 color would be "orgeon cheese" .. how do others feel about the "colors" .. i mean its weird, no eggs are PINK .. so are the fish just taking them out of aggresion??? never understood the egg/color game we all play .. but, i play it religiously and believe in it, just not sure why Very Happy

Curro · Location: Fayetteville NY

lol, I dont know what the deal is with the color thing either. Like you I always start off with oregon cheese when using glo-bugs. I was always a firm believer that it is 20% fly and 80% presentation with the only exception being egg imitation flies? Just last week I was fishing with my buddy who fishes a centerpin outfit. He was tossing egg sacks and I was flicking flies but we couldn't buy a fish all morning. He decides to try a white egg sack and wouldn't you know after a few drifts it was fish on. So I threw on a pearl/white meth in a size 12 and on my third drift it was on for me as well?? This was the same stretch of water we were working for the last hour to no avail. Time and time again I have been shown that color does matter in regards to egg patterns. Not sure how these fish see the colors or what they are thinking. Don't think its aggression this time of year because then they would slap every egg no matter the color but instead they are selective. Your guess is as good as mine.

jeremy · Location: Portland, Maine

curro - too funny man, me and you think exactly alike on this topic. although i would go as far as to say that its 90% presentation and 10% color (assuming we are just talking about egg patterns). You said, " Not sure how these fish see the colors or what they are thinking. Don't think its aggression this time of year because then they would slap every egg no matter the color but instead they are selective." .. EXACTLY .. and I don't buy when guys say, "It's a color they haven't seen before." Because many times I have been fishing to very fresh fish that just came in the river and I know they have not seen "alot" of flies .. so, that negates the theory that one color is better than another due to they have seen alot of flies. And, ya know what ... you nailed it when you said .. "Your guess is as good as mine." .... Because, its true! There is alot about all kinds of fishing and fish behavior that we just don't know. We like to think we "know it all" or have the answers to it all .. but, we don't. Fish are fish and they do what they want and that's what keeps it fun ... because, in the case of steelheading, I am always amazed .. amazed at drifts that hold fish, drifts that don't, colors and patterns that worked last week but not this week and how the fish and can turn on and off without rhyme or reason ... that is what keeps it fun.

PS. I also think its very cool that you were fishing with a pinner. It's so weird that in freshwater there seems to be much more of a "elitist" type mentality than in saltwater. If a guy is a good fisherman, whether it be fly, pin or light tackle .. that's really all that matters to me and I like fishing with good fisherman. I know lots of fly fisherman who are terrible fisherman and lots of light tackle guys or pin fisherman or whatever that are great fisherman (and visa versa) .. and in the saltwater I do fish the fly all the time, but often fish with guys who switch it up and use both. I don't really care to be honest .. I like fishing with good fisherman. The only reason I wouldn't want to fish with a pin fisherman is because of drift envy Very Happy

and for fear that he would just clean out the run before i even got a chance to cover the water Very Happy

man, i sometimes watch in awe at a good pin fisherman and just can not believe the absolute perfect drifts they can achieve in a variety of water conditions .. i actually studied the way they setup their rigs with the tappered weight system and in certain applications (pocket water and slow moving water) i use "their" rigging method on the fly rod .. and it really works nicely, presenting the fly first without any weight making contact with the bottom ... good stuff .. welcome to fliesandfins.com ..

Wilkie · Location: Western Maine

I've kept half an eye on this post for the past month or so. Was out on the SR two weekends ago, blue, which had been so insanely hot with the fresh chromers four weeks ago, had all but shut off. Day 1 we were fishing a pretty legit blizzard, all they wanted was Oregon Cheese. We had 4 of us fishing all different colors and time and time again it was the cheese sealing the deal for us. Day 2 was spent in the DSR w/ some hot intel from Whippa. Peach was pretty consistent throughout the morning, but then they started dominating white eggs w/ an orange dot (three pieces white egg yarn, one fluorescent orange piece egg yarn). Both trips we basically bought out all of the meth-style eggs from Fat Nancy's and haven't been able to find them anywhere else. Have messed around trying to tie them but haven't been able to perfect it. Anyone have a link to one of those step by step photo sites with a pattern for the meth style egg? Would love to see it, and have the "recipe". Those things slayed for us on our first trip out there in blue and yellow.

Steelie · Location: Erie, PA

Just diamond braid tied sucker spawn style...

Wilkie · Location: Western Maine

Steelie, pretend you're talking to a tying idiot, while I'm adept at Maine flies, I only recently started tying Steelhead stuff and eggs.....what is Diamond Braid? What is sucker spawn style? I know what the sucker spawn eggs look like, just not how to tie them well, and my attempts with the meth eggs have been similar. I assume this diamond braid is a type of yarn, and that in order to obtain the "squashed up style" you probably just use one piece of it, tie it to the hook, smush it forward, wrap behind the part you just pushed forward, then smush it forward again, wrapping behind that piece and so on and so forth. Does this sound right? Again, anyone with some handy links to step by step picture instructions of this would be sweet......visual learner here.

Curro · Location: Fayetteville NY

Here is a good tutorial on how to tie sucker spawn, for meths just replace yarn with diamond braid (type of synthetic braid). Most fly shops worth their salt would carry it.

http://flyguysoutfitting.com/suckerspawn.html

Steelie · Location: Erie, PA

My bad Wilkie. Didn't mean to come off that way. Curro's instructions should help you out a ton. You explained not knowing how to tie a sucker spawn by being from Maine, well, hey, don't be afraid to throw them on your favorite stocked stream, or Rainbow or Brookie water as the 1st fly in a dropper rig. It can be killer. Sorry again. Good luck.

Mike

jeremy · Location: Portland, Maine

here is a youtube video on how to tie a crystal meth .. done by shaq .. he is a talented steelhead fly tier of all kinds of steelhead flies. hope this helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34frNTjjurA

Curro · Location: Fayetteville NY

jeremy · Location: Portland, Maine

Curro -- ya, no doubt those are some tasty lookin' eggs .. honestly, if they were in a bowl next to my chair ... I'd be tempted to eat a couple:) .. I'm sold on the "3-dimentional profile" ... nice.

Curro · Location: Fayetteville NY

jeremy · Location: Portland, Maine

ya. i saw what i posted and thought, "what does denominational mean?" .. i thought it was some sort of crazy new fly tying technique or something??? . then realized you probably meant "dimensional" ....

Wilkie · Location: Western Maine

Sweet tips and links. Shaq, man, you crank on that thing.....ha. The tying vids and pics make things so much easier. Thanks to all

NHtrouthunter · Location: New Hampshire

I have always done great on the sucker spawns! There are my "go to" steelhead pattern....