Posted: Sat 02/07/09 5:43 pm Post subject: Tipping A Fly Fishing Guide - How Much?
What would y'all consider to be an adequite tip for a guide? The wife and I are headed to the Bahamas next week to get out of the ice and snow up here in Maine for a little while. I have booked a bonefishing trip for one day. ( Plenty of Pictures and maybe video to follow!) This is the first time in my life I have had the money, or opportunity to book a "quality" guide and I am unsure of what is considered a generous tip. Anyone have any suggestions?
Posted: Sat 02/07/09 6:01 pm Post subject: What a great question.
What a great question and I am curious as to the answer too? And, I don't think there is a "one size fits all" answer .. As there are many things that get factored in... price? did anything out of the ordinary happen (good or bad)? did you have fun? did you catch fish? etc... I am not a guide, but a lot of my buddies are fly fishing guides in saltwater and freshwater .. So, I think this is a great question .. Let's start with ..
1. What is the PRICE of your trip? I would think that that plays a roll? Boz (who is a full time fly fishing guide in freshwater) were down in Florida and the price of a full day of fly fishing with the guide we used was $550.00 - Now that's a lot for us .. and way out of the range we normally spend .. but it was a special 1 day that we decided to do as part of the total trip that we did without a guide. Nonetheless .. for our trip budget $550.00 was a lot .. In the context that I realize there are some guys who can afford to do 4 full days at that price. We ended up tipping $50 bucks .. for a total of $600 bucks. Now, that - to us - is a lot of money for a day of fishing - So, we didn't know if $50 was enough - but at that total price - it was really pushing the limits of what we could afford. So, we had a great day .. and if we were like some of the more wealthy folks that he takes out on a regular basis - we could have and would have like to been able to tip more .. but, $600 bucks for 8 hours .. was all we could do -- and we had a GREAT time.
Posted: Sat 02/07/09 7:20 pm Post subject: Tipping
Tipping, aside from a waitress, is always a problem. I have a policy of considering 1. how he/she charges for a day.
2. At the end of the trip are you glad you went?
3. Was there lunch?
4. Are you splitting the trip with a friend ?
5. I believe there is a difference if the guide is dealing with 2
rods than one.
6. Did the guide put you over fish and try hard to get one on
your line? if so he did his job.
In the end what is your budget like and how many days are you going out with him/her. If you bought a package trip the lodge should be able to give you hints about tipping or call somebody who books trips and tell them where your going and they may offer some advice.
See how hard he works for you and tip what you feel is right.
Posted: Sat 02/07/09 7:45 pm Post subject: One more thing
Saltydog - You mention another thing .. that is very cool. "This is the first time in my life I have had the money, or opportunity to book a "quality" guide" I can totally relate to that and so can't everyone else. When I was 17 or 18 there is no way on earth I was going out with a guide or even considering it because I didn't have any money .. Additionally through college, I was pretty much broke. Then, after college .. broke too .. living on Roman noodles, dinty more beaf stue, water and pizza. Then, I started my own business and anyone who is self employed understands the value of even 1 dollar. Anyway, I worked hard night and day .. picked up some good customers and found myself at a spot one day where it was even a possibility to consider using a guide. So, to you .. I say .. CONGRATULATIONS! Because, you have entered into a different realm of fly fishing in my opinion. Because when you can afford even 1 guided trip per year, as opposed to 0 guided trips per year .. you are at a new place in your fly fishing journey. For many years when I was totally broke, I literally could not even understand how someone could afford a guided trip or why they would even want to spend that kind of money to go fly fishing. "Do It Yourself" was all that interested me and I steered clear of anything even remotely associated with the word "guide." Then, as I started to make friends all around the country and world and traveled for business .. I realized that there was a "world" that existed that I never knew about .. A world where people rely on fly fishing to make a living .. and rely on guys to pay them for their services. This applies to guides, lodges, shops, etc.. Additionally, through fliesandfins I have become very good friends with people who rely on the fly fishing "world" to make a living. I have many friends that are full time guides, shop owners, lodge owners etc.. So, I started learn and continue to learn, that there is this "world" that is about more than just about catching fish etc.. There is a "world" that exists in fly fishing that not everyone realizes. In the same respect that I am sure you choose your rod and your gear and what fly shop in maine you go to with much passion and you give those things your business as a token of appreciation that represents much more than just "buying a rod from anyone." .. A guide fits into that equation the same way .. Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say is that by you deciding to spend money with a guide .. you should be proud of yourself .. why? because weather it is in the bahamas, maine, wyoming or anywhere in the world .. look at it as your little way of giving a "stimulus package" to the fly fishing world and the sport you love so much. That is how I see it nowadays. And that is an entirely different mindset from earlier years. I take pride in spending money at fly shops, buying gear and hiring a guide (to the degree that I can afford to) .. because when I make those choses and do those things I think of it as my little way of supporting the fly fishing "world" that I love so much. So, maybe its not much in the big scheme of things .. and its what I can do and afford .. but I am just 1 person and there are millions of fisherman who also feel this way .. so it is the total collection of that mindset and dollars spent that DOES keep our precious sport and passion alive. Because we as fisherman need fly shops, lodges, guides, books, dvds, websites and all of the other things that we enjoy and use and add value to our total fly fishing life .. And the people who provide those products/services need us to make a living and need us to spend money on their services/products in order to enable them to offer them to us. So, when you are on the bow of your FIRST guided trip .. YOU should stand proud looking over the ocean .. while your guide is working hard and poling around and trying to find you a fish .. and pat yourself on the back a little bit, for a job well done!
I usually tip the same as I would for any other services. If you have a good experience 15-20%. Cost of the trip could also determine the amount I guess. But now that I personally know a guide or two I can tell you there are definitely some costs for them that the client typically never see or think about. They don't get to pocket that full amount for the trip. There are a lot of overhead costs for guides. Pretty sure they all have to be insured. And we all know that is never cheap.
Posted: Sat 02/07/09 10:07 pm Post subject: Tipping Your Guide
This is a topic that has come up many times over the years in my world. It has come up in relation to the world that i work in (fly fishing both guiding for many years and running a guide service) and the world that i play in (paying for guides, restaurants, taxis etc.). From my perspective from both sides both as a customer and as a provider, no matter what service I am paying for I always try to tip 20%. I use this as a benchmark and if the trip is beyond my expectations I tip greater than this, if it is below then I tip less. There are exceptions, where I know that the price includes many aspects that are not service related. In those cases, I evaluate the tip with that consideration in mind. From the other side of the coin as a guide and with many friends as guides, it is too frequent expected that the tip is x dollars. To me, if I feel like I was tipped generously and as adequately as the client was able I felt appreciated and all was good. But, I am working for a living like everyone else and if every day I could work for a $100 tip or a $40 tip you know the route I would choose. Bottom line, tip the guide at least 20% if the trip lives up to your expectations or as much as you can afford. If it does not, then tip the guide less.
Kory - WOW. You know I value your opinion a ton and I wish I would have read this earlier. As, I never really saw Guiding as the same thing as "Waiting tables" .. only because everyone knows that "waiters and wait staff" make 100% of their money off the tip. So, in the case of tipping waiters/waitresses I ALWAYS tip 20%. Now, if I were fishing with a guide that worked as part of a resort or something .. I would probably consider the same flow of money and tip on a percentage basis; because I would know and understand that a guide working for a lodge in the bahamas is only getting a cut of the total price, because the lodge is taking a cut and probably a much bigger cut. So, I would feel obligated to account for that and tip accordingly and in similar fashion to how I tip at a restaurant. Now, in the case of the SOLO self employed guide - I would think that he/she would factor in PROFIT margin into the price of the trip and that for $550 I am paying well and he is making a good margin. I would not assume that he is also expecting at 20% tip on top of that. And in the case of a solo self employed guide - I would think that a 10% tip was sufficient (assuming it was a good day, not stellar but not poor .. just an average day). Your thoughts on this? Anyones thoughts on this?
Thanks for the input so far y'all. Everything you are saying makes a lot of sense. I'll give you guys a little more background. The trip is $650 a day. This includes lunch and drinks, all gear from rod and reel all the way down to the flies we use (I'm taking my own gear, but I'm glad he has all that stuff for my wife!), and he is going to pick us up and drop us off right at the hotel beach. I talked to a few guides prior to booking the trip. I was really impressed with the guide I booked. (I guess thats why I booked him HAHA) After talking about the bonefish game for a while, he told me to let him guide me for one day, and on our way back in, he would show me some flats around the resort I am staying at that hold fish. That way if I had more time to fish, or if the bonefishing "bug" was so bad that I HAD to get out and fish, I would have that opportunity. (I have an idea I will catch the "bug"...hell I think I already have caught the bug and I have never even seen a bonefish in real life!)
Like you Jeremy, I have always been a "do it yourself" kinda guy. I wouldn't THINK about paying a guide to put me on fish if I even thought I might be able to put myself on a few fish on my own. (I guess thats because until the college loans were paid off I was broke as a joke myself) My eyes were opened when I started traveling out west for work. I ALWAYS have my rod with me, and I try to be in a spot where I can fish in the morning and evening, before and after work. I was in Colorado fishing the Blue river one day, and I was having a miserable time. It was getting cold, the fish were spooky as heck, and I wasn't having any luck at all. The guy in the fly shop where I picked up some flies and my license was helpful, but I don't think he really cared if I caught fish or not. I went back to the hotel bummed that night. I went out for a late supper, and wound up drinking beer with a local guide. We sat there trading stories and I finally told him how bad my day had been. He told me to meet him at the gas station the next morning bright and early and maybe we could hook a few fish before work...so I did. We fished the same pools and runs I fished the day before. This time I was actually catching fish. I found out I wasn't far from catching fish the day before, there were just two things I needed to change. (distribution of weight on the leader, and use florocarbon!) Since that day, I have seen the value of hiring a guide. I guess this is the point that I saw the "other side" of the flyfishing world. Even though I never hired this guy, we are still friends to this day, and he and his wife are coming to visit me in Maine this year to fish for stripers one day, and trout and salmon the next. I hope I can show him a trick or two myself!
I have lots of pictures from trips I have taken in the past for steelhead, salmon, stripers, trout, tuna...all that good stuff. But you know...I am SO excited to post my fishing pictures\videos on here when I get back. This is a GREAT site. I hope I become friends with some of you guys, and get to share some water with you someday! All of your input is GREATLY appreciated, hope I can return the favor sometime!
My perspective comes from both guiding, running guide services and hiring guides. My recommendation here is based on what I have seen over the past 18 years of working in this industry and it might be somewhat biased. When I started guiding on the Green, the trip cost $250. I worked as a subcontractor for an outfitter that booked the trip and took a percentage (this is a very common scenario as the outfitter assumes responsibility for various costs and logistics that individual guides do not such as outfitter permit, insurance, marketing, scheduling etc.) In addition, on the Green, you have to work for an outfitter as they hold the permit for operating on Forest Service land (there are a fixed number of these and additional permits are not issued). As a subcontractor I relied on the outfitter to book me and for the abovementioned expenses. BUT, I was responsible for my own boat (that I had to own), a vehicle to pull the boat, fuel for the vehicle (some floats required a 70 mile round trip drive that included 13% grade dirt road beating everything up), a shuttle for the vehicle (on some floats at that time it cost $60 just for the shuttle), lunch for myself and my clients every day (I paid for or made this), flies (sometimes people bought these and we could use some of them but the majority were my own ties that I spent my unpaid time off tying), tippet, leaders and other miscleaneous terminal tackle (all paid for by me), and a variety of items required to have in my boat such as first aid kit, extra raingear, spare rods and reels, net and a bunch of other items that were aimed at making the trip enjoyable for the client. Not to mention the licensing and certifications and their costs. All of these expenses came out of my pocket. After these expenses, my portion of that $250 was about gone. If I had relied on this I would have gone broke in the first few months. Fortunately, the tips made up the difference. At that time, again remember the trip cost $250, the majority of my tips were $50 (20%). It wasn't uncommon to get $100 and this was over 15 years ago. These days that same trip is about $400 and the average tip is about $80. Now there are a wide range of compensation scenarios in this industry. Some outfitters provide almost everything mentioned above, but in those cases the guide gets paid substantially less and still relies on the tip. In the case of the solo practitioner, these expenses are even higher as they are required to pay their own insurance, licensing, marketing etc. on top of the daily expenses. When I hire a guide, I tip with all of this in mind and it is usually about 20%. If I know I am paying a lot of additional costs beyond the trip cost such as when you stay at an all inclusive lodge, I don't tip 20% because that is not the guide fee that is for lodging, guiding, meals, transportation etc. I usually ask the guide how much they make a day and tip based on that.
Wow...thats good to know. I never took into account all the "extra stuff" a guide is responsible for. So it is ok to ask the guide how much he makes a day? (He won't take offense to me asking?) I guess I should also take into account that he owns the business and he is an endorsed guide, shouldn't I?
I am with kory on the 20% just as he pointed out we have to pay for our boat, insurance, gas, flies, tippet, rods, reels etc. All of this gear gets beat to hell by your clients. Our trips include all flies so this cost becomes very high. I have had full day floats with beginners which is a very very long day only to get tipped 10%. Don't get me wrong every little bit helps but, when you are only seeing as little as 100.00 from the outfitter another 100.00 for a tip (for a 450.00-500.00 trip) is well earned and appreciated. 20% is what you tip a waitress you should tip your guide that as well I think they/we work a lot harder. As far as solo guides who own their own program I would re-evaluate my tip based on the thought that Jeremy mentioned above. All of that money is going to him and not getting split up between the "shop and guide."
It may be true that the solo guy gets 100% of the guide fee, but he pays 100% of the costs. He has to insure himself, market himself, book himself, pay for all communications, keep track of scheduling etc. He is not only the guide, but the outfitter, reservation agent, scheduler, manager and so on. Sometimes these guys hire someone (frequently their wife or significant other), but then here comes more expense. After all is said and done, I don't think the solo guy makes much more than the guy working for an outfitter. Outfitters or guides for that matter don't charge such high fees because they are getting rich and going fishing all the time (in fact many full time guides rarely fish during the season themselves because they are busy preparing for the next guide day in their time off). They charge the market price that allows them to cover costs and to make a living. When I ran the shop in Park City, we competed with plenty of guys working on their own who kept 100%. In order for them to get business, they typically would have to charge less because they couldn't afford the marketing, communications, insurance etc that we as an outfitter could. Most of them didn't even have insurance. Some of them worked very aggressively to get bookings, but then here is a substantial part of their time spent working; frequently more than time on the water where that same fee has to pay for their time. What most of them eventually did was go to work for an outfitter because they realized that when all of this was factored in they didn't make any more money and the headache of dealing with all of the peripherals wasn't worth it. I still say tip your guide 20% (or as close to that as you can) even if he is a solo practitioner. He isn't making any more money and is working for that extra income from the tip. I will add one last thing, If there are surcharges or taxes or other fees such as recent times when fuel prices were high etc. don't tip on these extras. Tip on the guide fee itself.
Ok - I am gonna get cruicified here as I am good friends with kory and joey and lots of other guides .. but I gotta be honest here .. and speak on behalf of the fisherman (i am not a guide) .. here are my points
1. Flat rate 20% .. no way. I suggest a sliding scale. For example waterwhippa charges 300 bucks per day ... so in that case 20% or even 30% makes perfect sense .. and that depends if it were 1 or 2 anglers. and also how good the day was. but certainly safe to say no less than 20%.
2. If the price is $650.00 per day .. the 20% becomes a little tougher to swallow .. So a sliding scale might apply .. and if trip is $500 bucks or more . than maybe 10% would suffice for an average day.
3. I think THE GUIDE should factor the expected tip into his PRICE. The definition of a "tip" is a sign of appreciation and a jesture that has signifigance much more than the $ amount. So, why can't a guide look at his current price of let's say 300 bucks .. then ADD 20% onto that - making it 360 .. Now he can assume that any tip at all is GREAT! I just think that a guide should factor in a good profit margin for himself into THE PRICE.
4. To say a flat rate of 20% all the time - no questions asked is just kind of strange. In the same respect that I was atlantic salmon fishing this year and one of the guys who was at the camp was ultra rich - he tips 1,000 dollars per day - no matter what - no questions asked. So, why don't we all set the bar at that? And say everyone should feel obligated to tip 1,000 dollars per day and forget the percentage rate. That would be simple. Unless of course, you are like me and can't afford $1,000 per day as a tip. In which case, I don't want to feel like a dirt back and feel as though my business is an insult to the guide and not waste his time with a low-tipper like me .. and I just wouldn't do any guided trips at all. That way, the guides would not be bothered with low paying customers like me .. and they could simply focus on all the people who are willing to pay the price of the trip + $1,000 per day .. I mean I would hate to insult the guide with a measly tip of $100 bucks per day.
5. I just never knew that anyone EXPECTED anything. And, now that I do, I don't have the same good feeling about using a guide - if this is the condition under which I have to do so. I just assumed (call me a fool) that the guide FACTORED IN a profit margin and wasn't EXPECTING a certain percentage of a tip .. I thought they would have factored that percentage rate into the cost of the trip so that any "tip" would be appreciated as an "added gratuity" .. So, I guess I never really saw a fly fishing guide in the same capacity as a waitress or a cab driver .. especially since I don't often take a F**** cab ride that costs $650 or very rarely (if ever) go out to dinner BY MYSELF and spend $650.00 and tip 20% on top of that .. so, maybe i should just do the guiding industry a favor and not use guides .. because I'd hate to keep insulting people with my measly $600 bucks per day .. when they could be getting all of the $1000 dollar tippers on their books and on the bows of their boats.
Posted: Sun 02/08/09 9:04 pm Post subject: Tipping
This is a subject that one needs to approach in a restrained manner as the subject gets emotional with bias on both sides. A tip is a "Gratuity", simply an extra amount of money, tickets to the Superbowl or something that shows your gratitude for something beyond what is expected. What one tips, depending of # of people in the party, is what one thinks is reasonable and can afford comfortably. How grateful will you feel if as part of the trip you were expected to pay more than you brought with you. I don't agonize on this as I won't know if the regular price is sufficient until the end of the day. Simply, tips will be slim in these economic times and most guides that I know whether Canada or Bahamas have always been happy with 50.00 but I can't say I Would go 20% across the board as there is a point where it becomes ludacris. But I will say good time and the guide put me over fish, ya , I'll pay a gratuity.
tipping is always optional, and should represent the quality of the experience. I think that for a full day of saltwater flats fishing, $600 is the most you should ever pay for the guide, and $50 is an average tip. If you have a little extra, $100 is usually where a "good tip" starts. I also think that the more you use a guide, the repeat business will probably get you a fantastic discount. Especially in the off season.
Posted: Sun 02/08/09 10:35 pm Post subject: tipping
Tipping is a tricky thing but here are the guidelines from a guide's perspective. A tip is good but not necessary. Usually start at 50$ and a good tip 100$. Consider the effort your guide puts in (extra effort at the end of the day, running a little further out ect..) if you are fishing with a guide on a regular basis you should agree on a set daily rate that might include an average tip. if you are strapped for cash talk with your guide and work something out up front. believe it or not, guides actually like to go fishing and will probably work a deal. be open to 1/2 days in the afternoon for instance. But, don't not come fishing. 600 for a day of sports fishing on the flats is more than enough to pay no matter what.
I think THE GUIDE should factor the expected tip into his PRICE. The definition of a "tip" is a sign of appreciation and a jesture that has signifigance much more than the $ amount. So, why can't a guide look at his current price of let's say 300 bucks .. then ADD 20% onto that - making it 360 .. Now he can assume that any tip at all is GREAT! I just think that a guide should factor in a good profit margin for himself into THE PRICE.
I agree with this 100% It just makes sense. I don't know of any company that sells its products or services "at cost." (If I did this, I wouldn't have a job for long...and yes, there are always exceptions to the rule) Your job is how you make your living, I would think a guide would factor in a decent profit.
I guess I am the dude on the paying end of this deal, and I am glad to pay a guide for a day on the water. After all, could you imagine how many days you would have to put in to connect all the dots, and be successful at catching fish that you have no experience with? ( I bet it would take longer than the vacation I am taking for a large majority of the 4483 members on here) BUT I am not hiring this guide JUST for a good time...I expect to learn things from this trip, and be able to increase my odds of catching fish the next time I have the opportunity to do this kind of fishing...and I like doing things on my own, so chances are the next time I am bonefishing, I will likely try it on my own or with a group of friends.
With this being said, this thread has been VERY helpful! I understand now that this is a touchy subject and both guides and fishermen have their own views...I guess for me, it all goes back to what Jeremy said earlier "there is a world where people rely on fly fishing to make a living .. and rely on guys to pay them for their services." I will tip as genorously as I can provided the guide works his @$$ off to put me on fish a teach me a thing or two about this type of fishing!
(I hope I don't sound like a cheap scumbag, but I still have a hard time swallowing more than a $100 tip on top of a $650 trip cost)
Posted: Sun 02/08/09 11:01 pm Post subject: Helpful
Saltydog,
NO KIDDING! I'd say this thread has been helpful to many .. and its very cool that so many guides interacted and us fisherman (without deep pockets) got to voice our opinions too .. and I think, in typical flies and fins style . the outcome was good for all! without any fighting or bickering. I think we can all agree here that.
1. Buy GOING FISHING with a GUIDE you are doing a good thing and supporting the fly fishing economy. And, like will benson say - don't NOT go fishing with a guide .. work with your guide to find a simple solution for you, your budget and what he can offer. Be honest and open - up front.
2. NOBODY wants to be a "scum bag" or feel cheapened. This refers to BOTH the guide and the fisherman.
3. The fact is .. some guys have millions of dollars and some guys don't. Everyone knows this .. and just like the guy at the atlantic salmon lodge who pays 1,000 dollar tips every day .. this is GOOD for the guide but certainly not applicable to everyone.
4. We can all agree .. NEVER tip LESS than $50 bucks .. but definately be willing to tip more depending on THE TOTAL PRICE and how that affects your wallet .. and, of course, how hard the guide worked for you or any extras stuff he did (fishing longer, going farther etc..)
5. Salty dog - YOU should NOT feel like a "scum bag" - NO WAY!
6. Salty dog - I bet you never realized that your little question would result in this!!! WOW, I guess you touched on something that needed to be addressed .. thanks for posting it .. as it has helped me greatly .. Now, above all else, get your A** to the bahamas and catch your first bonefish! Have fun! Hope to see a fish tale, some pics of you grippin' and grinnin' with your first ever bonefish .. trust me .. your gonna get "the bonefish bug' .. they are SOOOOO much fun to fish for!!!
7. Thanks kory, joey, willy, headrush (dave teper), greg and everyone else on this thread .. who added so much good value! I feel much better now about the whole guiding/tipping thing .. and looking forward to my next guided trip. Hopefully with Will. I NEED a permit!
Well, I'm leaving for Portland tonight y'all! By tomorrow afternoon I'll have my toes in the sand sipping on Kalik or whatever the local brew is! Thanks for all your help!
Just a little thought within this topic.
I live in the Netherlands and we dont have this common tradition of tips (its included in the salary and the expectations).
So for me its really adjusting to the local conditions.
My question now is, do you tip a Costa Rican guide (or where ever in the world) the same as a US guide? Cause the living conditions and other costs are not the same.
Posted: Thu 02/12/09 8:36 am Post subject: Tipping Customs
As the life of this thread has evolved, I have come to some conclusions. My perspective is based on many years of guiding, booking guides and managing guide services in the western US on trout streams. The "typical" situation out there is very different from saltwater and the myriad of other "guide trips" that exist all over the world. It has been great to hear all of these perspectives especially from the perspective from the other side of the equation, the people going on the guide trip.
On guide trips where I was the customer rather than the guide, (not very many) in British Columbia, Mexico and Belize the guide fee was built into the lodge price and I tipped based on what I figured would be a reasonable amount (basically what everyone here has said, about $50-$100 per day depending on how good I felt the guide did his job) for the guide portion.
What some have said here about being surprised that the guide expected something is somewhat surprising to me although that is why so many outfitters, lodges and guides are putting "gratuity not included" or "gratuities appreciated" or whatever into their literature. The reality fromt the persective of most freshwater trout guides in the western US is that a tip is expected (definitely not always deserved and if it isn't don't give it), and is relied upon in order to survive. Maybe it shouldn't be this way, but it is. Many guides in this situation have a difficult time "building it into the rate" because they have to work for an outfitter either because of legal reasons in their state or because of the heavy competition that exists. The outfitter sets the price and pays the guide based on what they think is fair and will cover expenses, but they usually factor in the expectation that a tip will be paid. That is the reality. I have even seen situations where the guide is working for a large operation where he is given room and board and everything is provided including vehicles, food, boat etc. and he isn't actually paid for the guide trip. He is technically receiving "income" in the form of these other things, but is not receiving any cash for his other day to day life expenses and relies on the tip for these.
Bottom line, there is no easy answer, and there are way too many different scenarios all over the world with different customs, expectations, pay etc. Hopefully, based on all of the different and excellent points of view from this thread one can come up with a guideline and adapt it to their situation. The consensus seems to be $50-$100 and varied depending on how the day went etc. I know most guides, myself included, would agree with this.
Last edited by kory_k on Thu 02/12/09 8:55 am; edited 3 times in total
Posted: Thu 02/12/09 8:48 am Post subject: tipping
tebe101,
FANTASTIC observation - and viewpoint. And, ya know what, I am personally sorry, and here is why. This entire topic of discussion was ARROGANT from the get go. Why? Well we all know that this site is a
community of people from all around the world and people who travel all around the world whether it be USA citizens going to south america, bahamas, australia, new zealand, aruba, guadeloupe, germany, canada etc.. OR people from those and many other countries coming to the USA. I think this topic and this point brings up a very important factor that demonstrates the BIGGER picture very well. We are a global economy now, and that is the way it is. That, on top of the fact flies and fins is ultimately about fly fisherman from all stretches of the globe that, by nature, fish their home waters and travel to other states/countries and fly fish in those waters as a GUEST. So, please excuse the heavy reliance on the USA topic of discussion on my part. I can not speak for everyone else, nor do I want to. But, for me, to have gotten trapped into just thinking about the USA is embarrasing for me. Because it is that very mentality that we ALL, from all countries, need to overcome and realize that we are all sharing this planet .. sharing the $ and, like it or not, it is a global economy now and we NEED each other. And we can no longer operate, in every sense of the word (fly fishing and not), in our little micro-worlds with tunnel vision. So, Thank you for pointing this out .. It is an absolutely critical piece of the "guiding/tipping" relationship that must be accounted for - and how Arrogant of me, as a USA citizen, it was to just apply "rules" that apply in USA to other countries and cultures. Perhaps YOU can advise us on how to approach that topic? And, do we have to account for it - YES. IS it and does it make it more complicated - absolutely. But, so what. If I went fishing in let's say, Tibet - for example. And, I applied 20% tip according to my little world and my little pea brain understanding of the guide/customer tip relationship .. I actually might feel good for a 20% tip .. when infact - I may insult someone - as in that culture it may be that the PROFIT is factored into the cost - and the TIP might be exchanged via some other comodity that is not of a monetary value. So, thank you for bringing this to the table and helping to add value to Flies And Fins in terms of truly helping it fit the mold of a global audience.
very interesting topic and this is what I feel about guiding in General.
Of course you need a guide when you go fishing in the sea, ocean, huge lake, when you stay couple of days and you don't know the spots. I think 10% tip is fine, but everything above that is far too much.
When it comes to the rivers (talking about waters in Europe), I prefer to spend the first day exploring the water and trying it out myself. Why? I have used a guide once in Slovenia, few yrs ago and honestly spoken didn't like the spots he suggested for me to fish. Yes, they were incredible good spots where you could catch big fish on nymphs with sinking line but that was not what I wanted. I liked some areas where the water was not flowing fast and by casting to the oposite shore you could catch some good brown trouts on a dry fly. Beside that, I really hate, I hate it big time when a guide tells me that there are only few flies that work on that specific water and I have no similira/good ones amongst my flies. In Slovenia, first thing I did to demonstrate he is wrong is when I put the black wolly bugger (red & black tail) of size 10. Used sinking line & leader and the conehead wolly bugger was grabbed by a 45cm Rainbow trout just 20 seconds later. I used then a Goldhead prince with rubber legs which he also said doesn't work and Voila, a 34cm brownie was landed 10 min later. I understand they want us to be successful but they have to understand that there are couple of flies that will work on almost every water. The same happened with some dry flies in the afternoon but anyway, I was happy with the guide but 180 EUR (230 USD) per person per day is way too much for 13km of river.
Second time I used a guide was in a very interesting and slow flowing river here in Austria (cannot remember the name). Two of us paid 350 EUR each plus 50 EUR tip. The water colour was not so good so my friend suggested to use the white wolly bugger. I tried the black one and it didn't work, just the same as all the flies that the guide recommended. he was blaming the rain of two days earlier and the water colour. Although a bit skeptic when my friend suggested the white wolly, I followed his wish and switched to size 8 white wolly bugger. It was simply unbelievable, we managed to land together 13 fishes in 2-3 hrs time that afternoon, all brown and rainbow trouts of the size between 28 to 44cm.
So, guides in Europe = NO THANKS. Regardless how professional can be, the terrain here is not so difficult so if I have the river map I can explore the water myself. I am not a professional, it is my 4th year I am doing flyfishing but still, I can easy figure out what flies shall I use, what are my favourite spots, etc.
But of course, should I visit US (I hope this summer), Bahamas, New Zeeland, etc, I would go for guide on my first day and that would be it
Dear fellow Sticks,
this is a very interesting topic and i can see from the variety of responses there is no clear cut answer. i have guided in Montana for 16 years and have been fortunate to fish around the world as a sport. I always figured a tip is something that was earned and not expected. however, a tip at the end of the day especially with increasing expenses(gas, gear, shuttles, etc) was much appreciated.
I totally realize that not everyone has made millions and shelling out $500 plus per day is a serious outlay of cash for most of us. it seems to me that the best way to get a guideline for tipping is to simply ask the outfitter, shop, lodge, booking agent, etc on what is customary. Usually, this person will give you a reasonable range from standard to exceptional amounts for a gratuity.
Going back to an earlier thought, i think the tip should be in correllation to the effort and quality put forth. I have been with flats guides that have taken me to one flat and staked up all day(later i learned it was called $5 flat, because that is the cost of the gas it took). I was not really impressed with the effort. You will know when a guide is poling his ass off to get you infront of fish or when a trout guide is rowing like mad to hold you in postition for those extra casts. Usually if the guide is breathing hard, he is working for you.
One last point i would like to clarify is that a great effort doesn't always equate to catching fish. Most of the time a good guide will put you in the position for a hook up, but the rest is up to the sport. the guide doesn't make the cast or set the hook for you. So one thing an angler has to remember the great opportunities and experiences that they have had not just how many fish were landed.
I've been guiding freshwater and saltwater for the last 13 years and I have a few points about tipping that maybe people who haven't guided don't realize... I've got big tips when fish was horrible and I've also got no tips from people that I thought would be thoughtful in the cash department.
Here's a few of my thoughts and before anyone jumps on me for them, I speak for myself on these points!
1. If you're a fun guest, thats likes to chat, doesn't expect to catch 900 fish, appreciates the experience and has a good time regardless of the fishing, then I don't really care what the tip is. You made my day easy and I appreciate you as a good guest more than anything else.
2. If the fishing is really good and I work my ass off and you realize that, help a guide out a bit. I find this more with saltwater stuff than anything else, running a boat, baiting gear, running four rods and downriggers and all the other stuff is a lot of work. Freshwater guiding on the other hand involves a lot of sitting around and pointing somedays, and I can understand a smaller tip.
3. Guides appreciate guys that are like us. Hard-working people that have scrounged a bit of extra money to go fishing for the day are always way cooler than some rich guy that can go on a guided trip everyday and who's been everywhere and done everything. Those guys are usually a pain in the ass and impossible to please, regardless of the tip.
4. I always appreciate when someone is thoughtful. I'm always stoked to get a fishing t-shirt or some flies along with a smaller tip. Its nice when people think like that and I always remember those guests.
5. Remember we can do everything except control the bite and the weather. If you have a good guide that works hard and deserves a tip, take care of them, but if you got a lazy guide that doesn't care about your day, then forget it, they haven't earned it!
Hope these points help a bit. Tight lines out there!
Posted: Wed 02/25/09 10:59 pm Post subject: Ammount to tip.
Hi. Reading between the lines,It seems some Guides,should be looked after better than they are by the Lodge owner,Outfitter,When I happen to come to the states to fish,whether it be Wyoming,Idaho,Montana or Alaska,if I'm @ an all inclusive lodge,as I read 10%-15% is OK,however if I am fishing with a guide who knows his stuff,I'd definately tip him extra.
Friends fish New Zealand,mostly every year,the guide is $1000/day,for 10 days,divided by four,who is excellent & checks the scene out for when they arrive, as well as accomodation,motels,hotels etc,plus air fares plus,a vehichle. They are happy with these charges.They also tell of another. guide who charged the same rates,who was hopeless & so subsequently they sacked him & done their own thing.
$300. Just kidding Well as a part time guide I never EXPECT a tip, but it's nice getting one (who doesnt like money?) I would say 10% would be totally adequate.
Posted: Wed 09/09/09 8:21 pm Post subject: Tipping is just a part of the game
No guide is going to include the tip in the cost of the trip... then his trips would be more expensive than those offered by others... he'd lose.
Tipping is just a part of the game, just like tipping is part of the game when you go out to eat. If you have horrible service, reflect that in the tip. Have a wonderful time, reflect that in the tip.
I was only a guide for a very short time and the thing I really appreciated was that the lodge included guidelines for clients so they knew it was expected... some folks just aren't aware... lots of people use guides when they are green in the sport, no one has told them, not their fault. If folks know, they are usually pretty good about it and if they know, and choose not to tip, it is just a sign that the guide has to work on their game.
Maybe, somewhere, there is a guide living high on the hog... wealthy as can be from their guiding career... I have not met that guy/gal... the math just doesn't support it... so, tip your guide if they merit it.
there is clearly no right answer here so I might as well throw my answer in too. First of all let's assume that the client can afford to tip a reasonable amount. If the client can't afford to tip very much then just tip what you can afford, easy enough. I only do a couple guded trips a year and I usually tip 20%. If you're paying $400 for a trip a 10% tip is $40 and 20% is $80 so it's $440 vs $480 if you're only doing this a couple times a year this is not a big deal. It may be unnecessary to tip this much but they really seem to appreciate it. If they do a terrible job or something that's a different story but usually these guys work really hard and have families. My brother was out over the weekend off of ACK and wanted to bring home some striper for a friend who had asked for it. All they caught was bluefish (still awesome) but the skipper and mate really worked hard to find some bass for him. At the end of the trip he tipped the mate and skipper really well as he had worked hard for him. After he got off the boat he went over and hung out with friends for a while and few hours later went back to get on the ferry. The mate had been waiting by the dock with a styrafoam cooler full of ice and bass that he had gotten from another captain. He had waited there for like 3 hours just to give this to my brother. This was the mate so the "good tip" wa sprobably $15 more than normal and he clearly appreciated it. And now when he wants a charter the captain will make his booking a priority. To me it's worth it to tip a little better it seems to work out in the end. Anyway I feel like I'm getting a lot more than $40 or 50 back when I tip well but that's just me. Again if you can't afford very much or the guide was a jerk obviously tip accordingly but that extra bit of money seems to go a long way. These guys work hard and anyone who helps me catch fish so that's always worth a lot in my book!
Posted: Sat 10/17/09 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Kory
jeremy wrote:
Kory - WOW. You know I value your opinion a ton and I wish I would have read this earlier. As, I never really saw Guiding as the same thing as "Waiting tables" .. only because everyone knows that "waiters and wait staff" make 100% of their money off the tip. So, in the case of tipping waiters/waitresses I ALWAYS tip 20%. Now, if I were fishing with a guide that worked as part of a resort or something .. I would probably consider the same flow of money and tip on a percentage basis; because I would know and understand that a guide working for a lodge in the bahamas is only getting a cut of the total price, because the lodge is taking a cut and probably a much bigger cut. So, I would feel obligated to account for that and tip accordingly and in similar fashion to how I tip at a restaurant. Now, in the case of the SOLO self employed guide - I would think that he/she would factor in PROFIT margin into the price of the trip and that for $550 I am paying well and he is making a good margin. I would not assume that he is also expecting at 20% tip on top of that. And in the case of a solo self employed guide - I would think that a 10% tip was sufficient (assuming it was a good day, not stellar but not poor .. just an average day). Your thoughts on this? Anyones thoughts on this?
You hit the nail on the head, ask the guide while you are out with them and see if he/or she is working for someone or is runing their own service. If they are working for someone then a Tip would greatly help that person out such as 20%, but if they are running their own service there is a profit margin built in and tiping should not be expected but to me just a bonus award for a job well done.
This has been a very interesting & educational thread. About a year ago I asked the same question about tipping in Belize after going on a cruise and learning that the average per capita income there is only $25 per month for the folks outside of the tourist area.
I was told that a tip of $10- $15 was the norm for Belize.
I also learned that Americans are such great tippers that in some countries the guides have to bid with management to get to guide, meaning the management gets an even bigger cut of whatever you are tipping the guide. The poster reported that the guides in a certain Venezuela lodge had threatened to walk off because management was keeping most of the tip money. Someone else said they went to Africa and they were told to tip the white guides 15 times the amount of the black guides. I got reports that $20 per day tip for the guide in Ascension Bay area was the normal. And some guys reported that they also added to the tip by leaving flies or cigarettes and that seemed to be really appreciated.
So forums like this sure help, and asking at the lodge is also a good idea.
Joe
Posted: Sun 12/19/10 12:45 pm Post subject: Tipping your guide
Guys!
It is all about service... I've fished with guides from New Zealand to Alaska to Colorado. If the guide takes care of my crew... I reach deep into pocket. (C-note minimum) If guide acts like he or she wants out of there, well tell him your tip was based on that. My guide in Colorado regularly gets 2 C-notes from me, because I learn something everytime and we have fun. He always makes my wife feel as though she out fishes me. ( And she does.) $50 would be a minimum if the service is below average.
Want see a guide work for you. Tell him their tip will based on size of fish.
$50 for every brown trout over 20".
I appreciate all of the input by the OP, fellow fishermen and the professionals who guide here as well. Tipping has always been a source of anxiety for me... but I've always done about 20% for restaurant service (I've never used a guide). Of course the 20% is based on service.
When the day comes for me to hire a guide (tough on my pay grade) this thread will have helped in one way or another.
Interesting thread and lots of good points so thougth I would add my take.
1. First off, please stop trying to use a waiter/waitress in an eatery for any kind of a comparison. They ARE taxed assuming that they get an averag of 8% tip on their sales. They also make less than minimum wage becuse of tipping. So lets say a waitperson has a table of 6 and thier bill runs $100. They make thier minimum wage plus a tip. They are taxed as if they got an $8 tip whether they did or NOT. Now the other end of the spectrum is that the also don't claim the tip they get over that 8% either even though they are supposed to. But how many of you guides out there honestly claim all your tips on your income tax??
2. The tip should be for the level of service and effort and not the fishing results. I had great guides who worked their butts off and fishing sucked. I have also had horrible guides who ended up showing us great fishing not because of their talents but because the conditions were perfect.
3. The tip should also be for the knowledge of the guide. Ever fished with somebody who could row awesome but had not clue what was good fish holding water?
4. I undestand about the costs to be a guide and agree that used to be a very valid point. Not so much anymore given the costs of a day on the water. Yes gas and other expenses have gone up but not as much as a day on the water.....I think this is especially true for freshwater where its common anymore to pay $450 for a day float.
5. I agree with the sliding scale approach. I too am a working stiff and I try and tip as good as I can but when a day on the flats costs me $500 or more dollars then the tip % goes down. Its just a matter of what I can shell out.
6. The tip I give also is a bit based upon if I am sharing the day with another angler. If I am paying $500 for a day on the flats and its myself and my wife then the guide is going to get probably $550 total. If I am sharing with another angler then the guide is probably going to get $600 total cuase I am not paying the whole bill. Again just a financial reality.
7. And most importantly - let the guide know how you felt about the day on the water. Hey Joe I really enjoyed fishing with you and would love to go again sometime. Here is a small token of our appreciation. Wish it could be more but this is what we can afford. In tough ecconomic times like these I would think that most guides are happy to have a paying client for the day tip or no tip!
Posted: Tue 05/24/11 8:55 pm Post subject: tipping
Hey all - I joined this forum because of this question that you asked... It is very near and dear to my heart as I am a guide in saltwater. As I read some of the posts its unbeleivable to see how many people don't know the proper tipping policy.. I can assure you that guides DEFINATELY depend on a proper gratuity after a trip. Especially since fuel has gone to over 5 bucks a gallon.. not to mention everything else that has gone up due to fuel price. A good STARTING gratuity is 100 dollars. This is minimal! Most of my clients tip 125-150 dollars a day.. Granted I have many repeat clients that have been with me for years. Do I beleive you should tip less if your guide doesn't work his a## off for you yes and no. Its up to you to tell him if you are dissatisfied with his work ethic. Which to be honest if you done your homework on guides you shouldnt have this issue. I will be honest if I am poling 8-10 hrs a day in 90+ degree weather into 15-20 knot winds you darn skippy I expect a 100 dollar tip fish or no fish... Put yourself in the guides position for a minute.. If we were to factor in what we should be paid with fuel, marina fees, oil, gear, flies, leaders, etc, etc.... (not to mention remember this is our time and experience your paying for also) A guided day wouldnt be 550 dollars it would be more like 700- 850 bucks... We leave it up to YOU to understand how hard we work and to pick up what we dont tack on to the bill.. I hope this helps everyone and sorry to be so straight forward but from the looks of a few posts it needed to be said..
Here is a small comment from my side... I already posted this on some other board so...it was easy..
I think that the least experienced customers are the ones that get the most from the guides - that IS a fact. And reading highest possible comments about "guides" being supernatural beings from those kind of customers can be very misleading! So you should check the background of the "happy customer" too if you want the better picture. It can very possibly be the first time that he caught more than 2 fish per day or a special fish or higher numbers or...but that is not the topic here...
What I want from the guide on my trips is to show me where the fish are in the first place. That is what I am paying him for. I am after them on my own then. If I have problems I do not hesitate to ask for advice because after all he is there exactly for that. This is my wish and if he is cooperating, my tip is the usual amount of what is expected. Some people want to use dry flies only-it's their call. Good guide should respect and know how to handle all that. If I have really good time it can be reflected in the tip as well. I also ask about the usual local approach just to check if there is anything new for me in it and I learned a lot this way. Especially far away from home.
What I don't appreciate at are narrow minded guides who know one and ONLY way (apparently "their"!) of approaching to a certain fishing spot or fish and don't want listen to yet even try your suggestions.
One should remember that customer is the boss. Of course in the respecting and polite way. (No one wants a spoiled brat on his back for a whole day) So if you get what you wanted you tip the guide. If you get more-you tip even more. But if he is not listening and is forcing things that are kind of opposite of what you want to do - he should feel it at the end - and LEARN!
Posted: Sun 06/05/11 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: tipping
tarponfly75 wrote:
Hey all - I joined this forum because of this question that you asked... It is very near and dear to my heart as I am a guide in saltwater. As I read some of the posts its unbeleivable to see how many people don't know the proper tipping policy.. I can assure you that guides DEFINATELY depend on a proper gratuity after a trip. Especially since fuel has gone to over 5 bucks a gallon.. not to mention everything else that has gone up due to fuel price. A good STARTING gratuity is 100 dollars. This is minimal! Most of my clients tip 125-150 dollars a day.. Granted I have many repeat clients that have been with me for years. Do I beleive you should tip less if your guide doesn't work his a## off for you yes and no. Its up to you to tell him if you are dissatisfied with his work ethic. Which to be honest if you done your homework on guides you shouldnt have this issue. I will be honest if I am poling 8-10 hrs a day in 90+ degree weather into 15-20 knot winds you darn skippy I expect a 100 dollar tip fish or no fish... Put yourself in the guides position for a minute.. If we were to factor in what we should be paid with fuel, marina fees, oil, gear, flies, leaders, etc, etc.... (not to mention remember this is our time and experience your paying for also) A guided day wouldnt be 550 dollars it would be more like 700- 850 bucks... We leave it up to YOU to understand how hard we work and to pick up what we dont tack on to the bill.. I hope this helps everyone and sorry to be so straight forward but from the looks of a few posts it needed to be said..
Add it all up and 600, 700, 800 dollars a day is too much and so is the tarponfly's expectation of a minimum 100 dollar a tip. If the head guide or outfitter is pocketing 90 to 100 % of the guide fee then these guys need to re-structure their pay structure. Somebody is being too greedy and it isn't the fisherman.
Posted: Wed 06/08/11 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: tipping
tarponfly75 wrote:
Hey all - I joined this forum because of this question that you asked... It is very near and dear to my heart as I am a guide in saltwater. As I read some of the posts its unbeleivable to see how many people don't know the proper tipping policy.. ..
I guess you missed that we were asking about tipping guidelines around the world, meaning there may not be an established "proper tipping policy." What is a proper minimum in one area of the world may not be proper in another. For you to expect a minimum of $100 on top of what the day cost seems a bit egotistical and presumptive. And may indicate that you are charging a too little for the basic guide day or half day. Tips are gratuities that should not be demanded but appreciated when given for a job done well.
I may patronize a restaurant that adds 20% to the bill as a forced gratutity once, but I won't go back a second time.
Posted: Thu 08/11/11 4:00 pm Post subject: How to Tip Fishing Guides and Lodges
How to Tip Fishing Guides and Lodges
by Marshall Cutchin
The difference between a meager tip and an excessive gratuity is a puzzle to many traveling fly fishers. Read this guide to accepted practice before planning your next trip.
A STORY I like to tell about tipping involves a gentleman known among his friends, appropriately, as Wild Phil. Phil used to place a $100 bill in plain sight on the console of my skiff, and whenever he jumped a tarpon, he would get down and hand me the hundred dollars. One day, after we had jumped 9 tarpon in just a couple of hours, I was struck by the relative absurdity of this relationship, and I said, "Phil, you don't need to be so generous."
Phil thought about this for a few seconds, then said, "You're right. I want you to know that I'm grateful. But I don't want you to think I'm stupid."
And so it is with tipping and fishing. Understand a little bit about how your guide, or lodge personnel, or captain are compensated and, within general expectations, follow your instinct.
General Guidelines
In all cases, if you are using a booking service or know someone who has fished the location before, ask. You'll avoid uncomfortable moments like a bartender in New Zealand refusing your $10 tip ("Why don't you just buy a round for the bar, mate?").With the amount of traveling fly fishers do, it's surprising that there aren't well-publicized standards for tipping guides something like the $1-to-$2 per bag "rule" for airport skycaps and hotel bellmen in the U.S. But just as guides and lodges in different parts of the world charge different rates for the same services, they can also have very different expectations of what makes a fair gratuity.
You may have some fixed rules of your own, like 15 percent for service people, or 20 percent if they've done an outstanding job. But following those rules in all foreign countries may do a disservice to other anglers and to lodge management. And what do you do at a lodge where half a dozen people are involved in ensuring the quality of your visit? Or maybe you've heard that in some parts of the world, T-shirts and fishing lures are more meaningful than cash. And what about that obnoxious bass guide in Florida who didn't like fly fishers because he couldn't tack on his normal "backlash" fee? ("Wind knot fees," you suggested under your breath.)
The short answer to these questions is that tipping etiquette in the fly fishing business follows the same general rules that apply to all service industry workers in a given country. In the U.S. for example, gratuities of more than 20 percent mean you were extremely happy about the experience; tipping less than 10 percent means you were dissatisfied, but communicates to the service provider that you know tipping is customary.
In all cases, if you are using a booking service or know someone who has fished the location before, ask. You'll avoid uncomfortable moments like a bartender in New Zealand refusing your $10 tip ("Why don't you just buy a round for the bar, mate?").
Is tipping discretionary? Tipping amounts even in the U.S. and neighboring countries, where gratuities are often taken for granted should always reflect quality of service. But not tipping in an industry where gratuities make up a considerable portion of the incomes of the lower-paid staff is almost always insulting. Discussing the source of a bad experience with a lodge manager while you are on-site, for example, is far better than leaving without tipping.
Guidelines for Tipping Independent Guides
First, let's clarify what we mean by "independent guide." Florida skiff guides and light-tackle offshore guides, New England and California striper guides, Texas bass and coastal redfish guides, and trout, salmon and steelhead guides not part of a lodge setting whether booked by an outfitter or not should all be considered independent guides, as far as tipping is concerned. What sets them apart is that they generally run their operations and provide service individually, absorbing the attendant overhead, and if they do accept bookings from a retail shop or outfitter, they generally have to pay a commission for that service.
As a rule, you should plan on tipping $40-50 to a bonefish guide for day of work in the Bahamas or around the Caribbean and Central and South America. In Iceland, on the other hand, you should plan to tip a salmon guide $50-100 per day. If you are budgeting for gratuities, figure in 15 percent for an average level of service from an independent fly fishing guide, but not less than 10 percent. Guides get a large percentage of their income from tips. Some top-tier guides expect a sizeable tip, and won't find future openings in their schedule for new clients who don't tip 20 percent. And regularly tipping more than 15 percent can get you access to peak-season slots that suddenly "come open."
Of course if a guide makes an exceptional effort fishing an extra hour or three beyond the norm or working especially hard to put you on fish tipping well makes good sense. Being stingy after a remarkable effort punishes the guide and the anglers who follow you. Not happy and don't plan to fish with the same guide again? It's still a good idea to tip something, even if it's only 5 percent it's not worth saving a few bucks and risking having it become known among the other guides that you don't tip.
One somewhat special case worth mentioning regards tipping independent Bahamas and other independent foreign guides. It's hard to know what to tip independent foreign guides because in many cases their rates are considerably lower than independent guides in the U.S. As a rule, you should plan on tipping $40-50 to a bonefish guide for day of work in the Bahamas or around the Caribbean and Central and South America. In Iceland, on the other hand, you should plan to tip a salmon guide $50-100 per day.
All that being said, keep in mind that many of the best guides in the U.S. would fish with their favorite customers even if they never tipped. When I was guiding especially in the early years when I had little choice over my clientele I believed that there was no amount of money that could compensate me for the pain of dealing with lousy customers. But I would have guided my best clients for free; tips from them were the icing. Here are a couple of other non-monetary suggestions for treating your guide well and letting them know you appreciate their efforts:
Show up 5-10 minutes early. Don't make your guide wait, especially early in the morning.
Be pleasant company and fish well. Can't fish well? You can try hard, and that's all a good guide expects. Don't get angry or frustrated to the point where it is interfering with the experience. Don't talk on your cell phone while tarpon are sipping crabs from the surface 20 feet in front of the boat. And don't strip all of your backing onto the floor of your guide's rig on the way to the river.
Don't treat taking your guide out to dinner as part of the gratuity. Most hardworking guides consider the opportunity to spend precious evening hours with their clients part of their work day, not a bonus.
Gratuities at Destination Fishing Lodges and on Package Trips
Unlike with independent guides, there are many variations on the accepted standards for tipping at lodges and on package trips, so gather as much information as you can before arriving. Every booking agent we know says that questions about tipping are the most common inquiry they get from traveling anglers, so if they don't include the information in their trip "ready list," be sure to ask for it.
General guidelines for tipping at lodges include the following:
Count on an extra 7-12 percent of the total package cost (on the land package, not including taxes, travel and other non-destination service charges), carried either as cash in your carry-on bag, which is best, or in the form of personal checks or travelers' checks (note that travelers' checks are one of the least-favored forms of gratuity, since banks will often charge significant fees to have them deposited; it's a sore spot with guides, especially in far-flung locations). Suggestions for total tips will range from 5 percent to 15 percent, however, depending on your booking agent, the destination, and the total package price, so be sure to ask the agent or the lodge manager. Don't let anyone convince you that you will be expected to pay more than 7-8 percent in gratuities on an $8000 trip. And just in case you were curious, 60-70 percent of these tips typically end up with the guides, and the rest is distributed to the non-guiding staff.
At Christmas Island, which became a very popular Pacific Ocean bonefishing destination in the 1980s, the local culture did not consider tipping to be acceptable behavior. It wasn't until arriving international anglers influenced the local guides that individual tipping became part of the experience.More often than not, you will be better off leaving a "collective" gratuity for your entire stay with the lodge manager at the end of the trip than you will tipping service staff and guides individually. The reasons for this are not readily apparent, but they include the fact that overtipping to individuals makes it more difficult for the lodge manager to control the expectations (and behavior) of the staff. At some lodges, guides who have been tipped excessively muscle out the less-experienced or less-senior but perhaps more-talented guides for access to the high tippers. And at other lodges, direct tipping throws a huge wrench into the works. For example, at Christmas Island, which became a very popular Pacific Ocean bonefishing destination in the 1980s, the local culture did not consider tipping to be acceptable behavior [note: this is also still true among other Pacific island cultures, including the newly publicized fishery at Penrhyn Atoll]. It wasn't until arriving international anglers influenced the local guides that individual tipping became part of the experience. Finally, you many not always realize who is working the hardest to make your trip enjoyable. The camp cook, for example, may be getting up an hour before everyone else and going to bed an hour later, and working twice as hard during the day as the average guide.
If you do want to tip a guide working from a lodge operation directly, a $40-60 tip per day is the norm, at least in Alaska. (Be sure not to wait until the end of the week to reward your guide.) And in those rare cases where your guide is also flying you out to your day's fishing, it is worth an additional $10 or $20. Generally, though, you can assume your pilot is getting a share of the lodge tip.
Cash rules, no matter where you go. Some lodges accept credit cards, but many don't. And as we've already hinted, travelers' checks are often worth 10-20 percent less than their face value after being cashed by the local bank and can be an inconvenience for guides. If you feel unsafe traveling with cash, find out what other form of payment the managers at your destination prefer. Note that in some special cases, however, cash tips to guides are discouraged in parts of the Amazon for example, guides at some lodges I've visited were notorious for spending their tips on alcohol and not showing up for work for a week and a lodge manager may suggest that you gift items like T-shirts or fishing lures instead of cash. Rarely should non-monetary gifts be counted as part of your overall gratuity, however, unless you have made a special pre-arrangement with your independent guide.
Tipping for Offshore and Other Special Types of Angling Excursions
There are also special types of destination angling that follow different sets of rules when it comes to gratuities. These include fishing from larger offshore boats, typically when fly fishing for billfish, whether they are directly booked or set up by a local lodge. (Note: we are not talking here about single-crew, open-fisherman type operations, where independent guide rules apply.)
In some parts of Latin America, such as Venezuela and parts of Mexico, and in some European countries like France and Italy, gratuities are automatically added to restaurant and/or hotel bills. Be sure to know the customs so that you can avoid double-tipping.In most parts of the world, you should expect to tip both the captain and mate(s) of an offshore boat independently of the lodge tip. The average gratuity for most operations works out to around $50 for the captain and $25 for each crew member for the entire boat, whether there are four anglers or only one. Some lodges and crews will expect higher gratuities, especially if they specialize in destination angling, but the most you should reasonably expect to tip a boat captain and crew collectively is $150 per day. Obviously, the crew and captain both have to work harder with a full boat, so consideration should be made if you are splitting the gratuity. As always, and especially when arranging for offshore fishing through a lodge, get a clear answer from the lodge or booking agent about tipping expectations.
Often in the Caribbean, South America, Central America and Mexico, you will find opportunities to fish with guides working independently out of small boats like pangas. These guides typically charge less and expect less in the way of tips than guides in established guiding communities, so let common sense be your guide, but be wary of over-tipping. Oftentimes these guides are not familiar with fly fishing techniques, expect to catch and sell their fish, and are used to smaller gratuities.
Finally, there are a few other special situations and customs you should be aware of:
In some parts of Latin America, such as Venezuela and parts of Mexico, and in some European countries like France and Italy, gratuities are automatically added to restaurant and/or hotel bills. Be sure to know the customs so that you can avoid double-tipping.
As in the example mentioned at the beginning of this article, service personnel in Australia and New Zealand and bartenders in the U. K. generally find tipping strange, as do people in Germany, Japan and China. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't plan on tipping guides and lodges in countries where gratuities are uncommon, however. Although New Zealanders, for example, aren't all accustomed to tipping, guests regularly tip at most of the fly fishing lodges there usually $100-200 for a week's stay, considerably less than the 7-10% that could be considered average at a U.S. lodge.
The most important thing to know about tipping is that a little knowledge goes a long way. Don't agonize about what is fair. Be excessive if the spirit of the occasion warrants it. And remember that a small tip sometimes sends a stronger message than no tip at all.
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Well as a part time guide I never EXPECT a tip, but it's nice getting one (who doesnt like money?) I would say 10% would be totally adequate.