Fly Fishing - Tippet & Leader: Use Tippet Or Not, Advice???

dryflyguy

i've been trying to teach myself how to fly fish for the last year or so when the weather permits. i read in a couple of other conversations that people are useing 12' of leader and 12' + tippit. i've never used a tippit just a scientific anglers snap on removable 9'leader. i guess my question is, could this be the culperate behind my marginal fly fishing success???

chernoble_kid · Location: Twin Falls Idaho

hey there, there a more qualified people that can answer this then me, but I'll take a crack at it.
when you here of people using long leaders and long tippets is usally cause the water is really clear and that makes the fish kinda spooky around fly line.
Another reson to use tippet is that it makes your leader last longer by not cuting more of it off every time you tie on a fly.
Anyway I hope this helps and welcome to the world of fly fishing!
chernoble_kid Very Happy

dryflyguy · Posted: Fri 04/17/09 12:23 pm Post subject:

thanks alot.... i'll have to give it a whirl next time im out.....

kory_k · Location: New York, NY

Chernoble, you have the right idea. A couple of things i would add:
1. When you buy a leader like the scientific angler one you mention, the tippet is already "built in". In other words the machine that tapers the leader has a certain amount at the end that functions as the tippet. You don't necessarily need to add any more. However, if the size of leader you have on (say for example 4x) but you think that a smaller size would fool the fish into taking then you can add tippet in a smaller size (5X). Some people add tippet right out of the package anyway because the added tippet allows you to change flies more frequently without cutting back the taper on your leader. Also if you have a 9 foot leader and need a little more length then adding tippet can be helpful.

You said

dryflyguy · Posted: Fri 04/17/09 1:08 pm Post subject:

whare i fish the mosquito's are typically heavy, and when the fish are jumping for them i try an adam's dry fly # 16 hook or a Dark Hendrickson Dry Fly #18 . im not sure but i think the leader is and "L2L - Leader, 9' Double, 3X"

kory_k · Location: New York, NY

Ok that helps. It sounds like you are fishing on a lake. If it is mosquitoes that they are taking, then imitations of those should work. Midges also imitate mosquitoes quite well and frequently hatch at the same time. Midges, for fishing purposes are a mosquito that can't bite. They look almost identical and have the same life cycle. You should make sure the size of your fly is the same as the size of the mosquitoes. Usually mosquitoes are pretty small, but you said you are fishing a 16 adams and an 18 hendrickson so you are pretty close. Those could work but they are kind of bushy and mosquitoes and midges are very sparse. Another fly you might try is a griffiths gnat (there are a lot of different midge patterns that would also work, but this is a basic one found in a lot of places). It is a more sparse and effective fly for those bugs. You also said you were fishing 3X, that is much too heavy for flies that small in most situations. Also, is your leader fresh? If not you may even be fishing heavier because as you cut it back you get into the heavier material. Try a new leader in at least a 5X, or even 6X. Another thing that could work in the scenario you are fishing is a dry with a dropper. If you are seeing fish "jumping" many of them are probably chasing midge or mosquito pupa to the surface so they will take a pupa imitation (a simple one is a zebra midge in the correct size). So tie on a buoyant dry fly that you can see, tie a piece of tippet to the bend of the hook about 10-12" long and tie on the dropper zebra midge and when the dry sinks, set the hook. This rig works very well but can get tangled very easily so try pausing your backcast a little longer.

Hope this wasn't too much information, try it and let me know how it goes. Smile

dryflyguy · Posted: Wed 04/22/09 6:43 am Post subject:

it's still a little early for the river's and streams i think..... but ill let you know how it works out in a couple weeks or so. thanks for the help.

dryflyguy · Posted: Tue 04/28/09 9:08 pm Post subject: more on the leader>

has anyone used the above mentioned scientific angler detachable reusable leaders? i was thinking to myself that maybe the conection between the line-leader was a big large could scare the fish.....maybe.

kory_k · Location: New York, NY

Get rid of that connection. Not only does it land harder potentially scaring the fish, it can increase drag when you are on a stream, sink and cause other problems . Those things were around many years ago and faded away and S.A. brought them back a few years ago only to discontinue them again about a year or two ago. To reattach your leader it depends on what you have at the end of your fly line. If you have a loop that was already attached to the line, you can just tie a perfection loop in the end of the leader where you cut the connector off and loop to loop connect it back together. If you don't have a loop, I would recommend attaching a butt section to the end of your fly line which is just a heavy piece of monofilament, stiffer and heavier than the rear portion of your leader. Tie this piece to your fly line with a nail knot or needle knot or allbright. At the end of that monofilament, tie the perfection loop again and loop to loop it or for an even smoother and smaller connection tie a blood knot to your leader. You can just tie your leader to the fly line with a nail or needle or allbright as well, but then you have to cut back your fly line every time you change leaders. If all of this sounds too complicated, try asking your local flyshop to help you out or get a book on knots and connections. Good luck!

dryflyguy · Posted: Wed 04/29/09 7:58 am Post subject: great

sounds like a plan. i've heard of these knots before never used them though. i used a varient of the figure eight not to connect my fly line to the backing, coult i also use this for the leader.

kory_k · Location: New York, NY

I would stick to the tried and true knots like the ones that i suggested. I would also consider re attaching your line to your backing with one of these same knots. Sure, most of the time in trout fishing the backing connection is not stressed but the time that it is you will be very unhappy if you find that it doesn't hold. You will not only lose the fish, but your entire fly line and everything attached to it Sad

You can see a lot of knots on this website for step by step animated instructions.
http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php

dryflyguy · Posted: Wed 04/29/09 12:42 pm Post subject: using a dry with a dropper?

would this work with a popper, or should i stick with a fly imitation?

kory_k · Location: New York, NY

Do you mean the leader and knot setup?

dryflyguy · Posted: Thu 04/30/09 6:25 am Post subject:

"Another thing that could work in the scenario you are fishing is a dry with a dropper." could i use a popper, instead of a dry. what type of dry would be boyant enough to work

kory_k · Location: New York, NY

You could prob use a popper havent done that but am sure it would work. For flies, try larger buoyant and visible patterns in the scenario u were describing i would try larger parachute adams.

dryflyguy · Posted: Tue 05/12/09 6:12 pm Post subject:

can tippit material be used in stead of a leader???

kory_k · Location: New York, NY

basically a leader is made up of several pieces of tippet tied together. with a store bought tapered leader a machine tapers the material instead of tying several pieces together with knots. the key is to taper the material starting with heavy and gradually getting lighter so that it unfolds smoothly when you cast.

flifishri · Posted: Thu 05/21/09 10:28 am Post subject: Leaders/Tippet

Forget the loop to loop.

Tie on a 2 1/2 piece of 20-30 lb mono to end of fly line with a nail knot. Tie leader butt section to this with a blood knot. ALWAYS tie on a tippet 2/1/2 to 3 feet long on a 9 foot leader. This give you a 13-14 foot leader perfect for dry fly fishing. I use a 5x leader for 6x tippet. One leader, if you don't foul should last a season. Without tippet you are shortening the base leader each time you tie on a fly. If you don't mind $3.75 every time you change a leader! I've seen guys with ridiculously short leaders with no tippet since they've continuously cut back in changing flies..no chance in a tricky current with dry flies. TIP: Try a hand tied leader it will straighten and turn over perfectly set up as above. Loop to loop is a disaster.

lunchbox · Location: Utah

flifishri · Posted: Thu 06/11/09 10:48 am Post subject: leaders and tippet

As stated for DRY fly fishing 2 and 1/2 to 3 feet of tippet on a 9 footer. I don't fish droppers or nymphs/streamers. Tight pocket water, wind etc., I suggest you cut back to a 7 1/2 foot leader then add the 2 and 1/2 to 3 feet of tippet.